Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2014, 10:41 PM   #21
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
"Cover" does not just refer to a specific identity - going in dressed as a local is still cover, it is just a very weak one. Ideally, you want to pick a cover that allows you to do what you need to do, and if you want to carry a gun, pick a cover that allows you to do so.
While dressed as a local and carrying out surveillance, any visible weapon marks him as a threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
But that MP7, once used, will immediately mark him as a high-level operative - anyone in that area might carry a pistol (or even an AK, if they do security work or such), but someone carrying an expensive and unusual weapon with hard-to-acquire ammunition is going to draw attention. As soon as he uses that MP7 and leaves witnesses, his cover is gone, and he is exposed as some foreign operative.
The only way someone on a surveillance op draws a gun at all, it's because they have been identified as members of security forces and are in imminent physical danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Besides, as a Delta he will have been trained on AK's and such and should also be more than capable of killing an enemy by pistol and then taking his rifle. Still, if he wanted to have a disguise AND a larger weapon, I would consider having a car or cart or such that would allow him to conceal an AK. If he pulls that then it is likely he will be perceived as Al Qaeda or Iraqi Intelligence or a local criminal or something of that nature.
It makes no difference whether hostiles that engage him believe him to be Iraqi Intelligence, a rival militant or an enterprising criminal. If he has to pull a gun at all, it is because he has failed at his primary function of clandestine surveillance, but would like to avoid that failure having terminal consequences for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
There are three basic scenarios I can see here:

1) He is trying to look like an ordinary Iraqi. This is what I was going with the whole time, and believe it or not, if he starts firing an MP7 he is likely to be remembered and unable to resume any similar guise without moving to a new area.
He's trying to look like an ordinary and non-threathening person in a crowd. Recognising that at some point during several months of intelligence ops in cooperation with US special operation personnel and commando units from Iraqi security forces that range over most of western Iraq, it would be possible for one to result in a catastrophe, he elects to carry some form of concealable weapon for self-defence.

This could be anything from a .22 pocket pistol to a short-barreled carbine in a specially designed scooter-mounted covert case.

Most likely, striking a balance between utility and stealth, it will be a modern CCW handgun in at least a somewhat effective caliber carried on him and possibly something that packs maximum firepower in minimally bulky package that he carries on his scooter, in case everything turns to excrement and he really does need to shoot his way out of an ambush.

That might be, for example, a Kahr P380 carried in a IWB holster beneath normal clothing and an MP7 kept in a special pocket sewed in the satchel he has on the back of his scooter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
2) He is trying to look like Iraqi military. So equip him like Iraqi military.
When he wants to look like Iraqi military or security forces (if for some reason he does), he'll draw kit from their stores, as he's probably going on an op with them.

There will be no shortage of Iraqi gear that a simple official request relayed through the Ministry of the Interior can make available. I (and the player who asked about this) am concerned about high-tech gear available to Delta exclusively (or at least inconveniently expensive for private contractors to buy) that the PC might 'borrow' from the gear he carried on his Delta intelligence ops and bring with him to use on the actual adventure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
3) He is trying to look like a foreign mercenary or US military or whatever. Give him whatever you want, but it wastes the advantage of his appearance.
Not a factor in either the Delta operations that the PC was doing when pulled out to play local expert / security element / field electronic device technician for an irregular team of specialists from various agencies or in the actual adventure resulting from that.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2014, 12:43 AM   #22
cosmicfish
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
While dressed as a local and carrying out surveillance, any visible weapon marks him as a threat.
If that is his cover, then sure. There are some places where not being visibly armed would be suspicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The only way someone on a surveillance op draws a gun at all, it's because they have been identified as members of security forces and are in imminent physical danger.
The fact that you are in physical danger does not mean that it is acceptable to betray who you are. In many cases, a special recon mission can be successful even if the operators are discovered and have to extract under fire... provided no one knows who they are or (better still) thinks they are some other deliberately specified party.

So let's say they identify your Delta and start shooting at him, but he gets away. Afterwards, what do they do? If they think that US/Iraqi intel knows what they are doing, they are likely to change their plans, rendering the intelligence useless. Conversely, if they think that the individual is a Baathist or part of a criminal organization, they may decide that their operations can still go forward as planned (since the targets are still in the dark and the investment has been made).

The core concept of black ops is that no matter what the targets never have any proof who did it, and ideally suspect someone else entirely. There are real advantages to this, and it happens to be one of those things that is a Delta specialty. Concealing your allegiance is, to these guys, a basic part of operational security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Most likely, striking a balance between utility and stealth, it will be a modern CCW handgun in at least a somewhat effective caliber carried on him and possibly something that packs maximum firepower in minimally bulky package that he carries on his scooter, in case everything turns to excrement and he really does need to shoot his way out of an ambush.

That might be, for example, a Kahr P380 carried in a IWB holster beneath normal clothing and an MP7 kept in a special pocket sewed in the satchel he has on the back of his scooter.
I would recommend a Browning Hi-Power and an AKS-74U - both are reasonably common to the assorted local forces, effective, familiar to Delta operators, and help to minimize the chance that the operator will be identified as American in the event of engagement or capture.

Like this: You're planning an attack on Coalition forces, you begin to think that the guy across the street is a spy. You and your goons go over to question him, he pulls out a small AK and opens up on you. You return fire, but he escapes. You know that he looked Arabic, dressed Arabic, and his weapons were the kind of thing that you could find anywhere in the country. Was your mission compromised, or was that unrelated?

Conversely, if he pulls out some weird gun you've never seen before, or (worse) something that you have only seen in the hands of Coalition forces, do you still hold out ANY chance that it was unrelated? How do you not change your plans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I (and the player who asked about this) am concerned about high-tech gear available to Delta exclusively (or at least inconveniently expensive for private contractors to buy) that the PC might 'borrow' from the gear he carried on his Delta intelligence ops and bring with him to use on the actual adventure.
That could be literally anything. Delta has enormous resources, and considering the range of operations they undertake and the frequency they replace gear it is likely that there is no real standard gear set. For any given type of equipment, there is likely a range they might use, from "outdated but nondescript" to "cutting edge, but distinctive" kinda gear.

In this kind of operation, they would likely not carry ANYTHING that the enemy would not also have access to. Just too distinctive. They would save the top-of-the-line stuff for wet ops, not SR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Not a factor in either the Delta operations that the PC was doing when pulled out to play local expert / security element / field electronic device technician for an irregular team of specialists from various agencies or in the actual adventure resulting from that.
Which is strange, since it appears to be SOP for Delta. They seem to identify as Americans only when necessary, and identify as Deltas only on a need-to-know basis. If the character was a Delta he spent a lot of time learning how to appear to be anything but.
cosmicfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2014, 11:00 AM   #23
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
If that is his cover, then sure. There are some places where not being visibly armed would be suspicious.
In that case, he can draw on the full arsenals of United States Forces - Iraq and the Iraqi Army and Ministry of Interior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
The fact that you are in physical danger does not mean that it is acceptable to betray who you are. In many cases, a special recon mission can be successful even if the operators are discovered and have to extract under fire... provided no one knows who they are or (better still) thinks they are some other deliberately specified party.

So let's say they identify your Delta and start shooting at him, but he gets away. Afterwards, what do they do? If they think that US/Iraqi intel knows what they are doing, they are likely to change their plans, rendering the intelligence useless. Conversely, if they think that the individual is a Baathist or part of a criminal organization, they may decide that their operations can still go forward as planned (since the targets are still in the dark and the investment has been made).
If the operator is discovered and shots are fired, a joint force of (mostly) Iraqi and (a few) US commandos would deploy to extract him and strike at any targets under surveillance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
The core concept of black ops is that no matter what the targets never have any proof who did it, and ideally suspect someone else entirely. There are real advantages to this, and it happens to be one of those things that is a Delta specialty. Concealing your allegiance is, to these guys, a basic part of operational security.
Why do you assume that these operations are black ops?

They are legitimate Federal Police and Iraqi Counter-Terrorist Command operations that enjoy intelligence and technical support from United States Forces - Iraq.

Any successes are loudly proclaimed by the Iraqi government. The fact that US forces are still providing technical and intelligence support to Iraqi security forces in 2011 is not a secret in any effective sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
I would recommend a Browning Hi-Power and an AKS-74U - both are reasonably common to the assorted local forces, effective, familiar to Delta operators, and help to minimize the chance that the operator will be identified as American in the event of engagement or capture.
If captured, the operator would probably be acknowledged as American, in the hope that this would make it less likely that he was summarily executed, as might happen if the opposition thought he was an Iraqi commando.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Like this: You're planning an attack on Coalition forces, you begin to think that the guy across the street is a spy. You and your goons go over to question him, he pulls out a small AK and opens up on you. You return fire, but he escapes. You know that he looked Arabic, dressed Arabic, and his weapons were the kind of thing that you could find anywhere in the country. Was your mission compromised, or was that unrelated?

Conversely, if he pulls out some weird gun you've never seen before, or (worse) something that you have only seen in the hands of Coalition forces, do you still hold out ANY chance that it was unrelated? How do you not change your plans?
I'm unconvinced that a firefight with Iraqi Federal Police commandos or Iraqi Counter-Terrorist Command commandos would leave militants so blasť as to continue their plans uninterrupted.

In the operations being discussed, Delta is providing intelligence support, advice and technical expertise to operations primarily run by the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
That could be literally anything. Delta has enormous resources, and considering the range of operations they undertake and the frequency they replace gear it is likely that there is no real standard gear set. For any given type of equipment, there is likely a range they might use, from "outdated but nondescript" to "cutting edge, but distinctive" kinda gear.

In this kind of operation, they would likely not carry ANYTHING that the enemy would not also have access to. Just too distinctive. They would save the top-of-the-line stuff for wet ops, not SR.
There are several other Delta operators with the Iraqi commandos who are primarily there to operate fancy high-tech devices that add capability to the local operations.

Winning goodwill with the local bigwigs by providing them with technical support for their operations is one of the goals of these operations. Another is to keep US forces informed about the operations of Iraqi counter-terror teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Which is strange, since it appears to be SOP for Delta. They seem to identify as Americans only when necessary, and identify as Deltas only on a need-to-know basis. If the character was a Delta he spent a lot of time learning how to appear to be anything but.
Delta also operates as part of Task Force formations with 75th Ranger support. It isn't an exclusively black ops outfit.

Granted, the credit for these operations is meant to go to the locals who provide 99% of the manpower and firepower, but it's not as if the fact that US advisors and instructors go out on counter-terrorist operations with Iraqi forces is a secret in 2011. When the character was detailed for this duty, it was still a full six months until United States Forces - Iraq was scheduled to leave the country.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2014, 12:12 PM   #24
cosmicfish
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Why do you assume that these operations are black ops?
Because Delta is like a Stealth Bomber - great under very specific circumstances, but way too expensive to risk for something routine. If a Delta operator is being used it should be because they do not think someone else can do the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
If captured, the operator would probably be acknowledged as American, in the hope that this would make it less likely that he was summarily executed, as might happen if the opposition thought he was an Iraqi commando.

I'm unconvinced that a firefight with Iraqi Federal Police commandos or Iraqi Counter-Terrorist Command commandos would leave militants so blasť as to continue their plans uninterrupted.
I am assuming that the organization being investigated is deep enough that the operations visible at the first encounter (and at most operational locations)
represents only a small fraction of their resources, and specifically excludes their higher levels of leadership. If that is not the case, then you have Delta investigating petty crime, which is neither sensible nor challenging. If it is the case, then any actions have to take into account what those offsite higher-ups will learn and do as a result.

Large criminal and terrorist organizations have small dust-ups with police and military forces on a regular basis, for a variety of reasons. If they cancelled major operations just because of a small firefight in a city known for small firefights then they would never get anything done. Instead, they are going to analyze the incident and try and figure out whether or not it was "one of those things" or if it indicated the compromise of something important. Commandos of any type give that away, so you need to keep them from finding that out - you can either disguise everyone as ordinary Iraqi police/military or you can control the site so thoroughly that they simply never get the details (good luck with that!).

Think about this as if it were drug dealers. If a low or mid-level dealer gets killed or arrested, they don't shut down the cross-border pipelines or scatter the distribution networks - these things happen. But if they find out that the dealer was targeted by the DEA or that he was taken down in a massive SWAT operation that suggested prior surveillance, then you start taking steps to minimize the damage and preserve the organization and infrastructure. You can replace low-level people (indeed, you frequently have to), but the organization is a little more precious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
In the operations being discussed, Delta is providing intelligence support, advice and technical expertise to operations primarily run by the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense.
If they are providing intelligence support in the form of actual collection, then they are not going to risk invalidating all that intelligence by exposing the operation. They will want discretion and will do anything necessary to make sure that is the case - disguise the support team as insurgents, or as regular police/military dealing with an unrelated issue nearby. They certainly won't have identifiable commandos responding without a helluva good and obvious explanation. We've made that mistake enough times to know that it doesn't work out well for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Winning goodwill with the local bigwigs by providing them with technical support for their operations is one of the goals of these operations. Another is to keep US forces informed about the operations of Iraqi counter-terror teams.
Neither of those necessarily require placing a Delta operator out in front, especially one of those few who can pass as an Arab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Delta also operates as part of Task Force formations with 75th Ranger support. It isn't an exclusively black ops outfit.
When they do that, the fact that Delta is involved is classified, and they try to blend in with the rest of the group. They identify as American, they keep the rest under wraps.
cosmicfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2014, 03:23 PM   #25
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Because Delta is like a Stealth Bomber - great under very specific circumstances, but way too expensive to risk for something routine. If a Delta operator is being used it should be because they do not think someone else can do the job.
But it isn't always the fact. US Special Forces are over-extended and have a very high operational tempo. Not every operation, even for Delta Force, is world-shattering, based on accurate intelligence or even results in a kinetic engagement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
I am assuming that the organization being investigated is deep enough that the operations visible at the first encounter (and at most operational locations)
represents only a small fraction of their resources, and specifically excludes their higher levels of leadership. If that is not the case, then you have Delta investigating petty crime, which is neither sensible nor challenging. If it is the case, then any actions have to take into account what those offsite higher-ups will learn and do as a result.
Task Force 145/88/whatever, composed of Delta/DEVGRU/SAS and support troops, accounted for 3,500 combatant fatalities in little over 2 years over 2006-2008.

It isn't as if there were ever 3,500 high-value terrorist masterminds in the area. Most of them were, indeed, the local equivalent of 'petty crime'.

These operations are not meant to be supremely important or exciting. They are the day-to-day grind that the character was called away from in order to start the adventure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Large criminal and terrorist organizations have small dust-ups with police and military forces on a regular basis, for a variety of reasons. If they cancelled major operations just because of a small firefight in a city known for small firefights then they would never get anything done. Instead, they are going to analyze the incident and try and figure out whether or not it was "one of those things" or if it indicated the compromise of something important. Commandos of any type give that away, so you need to keep them from finding that out - you can either disguise everyone as ordinary Iraqi police/military or you can control the site so thoroughly that they simply never get the details (good luck with that!).

Think about this as if it were drug dealers. If a low or mid-level dealer gets killed or arrested, they don't shut down the cross-border pipelines or scatter the distribution networks - these things happen. But if they find out that the dealer was targeted by the DEA or that he was taken down in a massive SWAT operation that suggested prior surveillance, then you start taking steps to minimize the damage and preserve the organization and infrastructure. You can replace low-level people (indeed, you frequently have to), but the organization is a little more precious.
During the months that the character was on these operations, they did not kill or capture a single high-value target.

The US presence there in 2011 was a way to show support for local elite commando units and oversee the last phases of a transition which sees all responsibility for planning and mounting such operations passed over to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
If they are providing intelligence support in the form of actual collection, then they are not going to risk invalidating all that intelligence by exposing the operation. They will want discretion and will do anything necessary to make sure that is the case - disguise the support team as insurgents, or as regular police/military dealing with an unrelated issue nearby. They certainly won't have identifiable commandos responding without a helluva good and obvious explanation. We've made that mistake enough times to know that it doesn't work out well for us.
None of these operations was more important than the safety of the operators involved. Any hint of someone firing on the security forces would have brought an extreme response, in much the same way as someone shooting at an undercover cop in Detroit brings a lot of cop cars, SWAT and helicopters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Neither of those necessarily require placing a Delta operator out in front, especially one of those few who can pass as an Arab.
Which is why SOCOM reassigns him when a task comes up that actually requires his special talents and isn't just the special operations equivalent of traffic patrols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
When they do that, the fact that Delta is involved is classified, and they try to blend in with the rest of the group. They identify as American, they keep the rest under wraps.
Theoretically, but officially, it isn't as if anyone present is fooled.

Fort Bragg internal newsletters mention Delta frequently. News reports mention their participation in ongoing operations.

There are actual secrets about a lot of what they do, but it's not as they are a black hole of secrecy which no one is allowed to penetrate.

There are actual political and security benefits from publicly showing a high level of support for Iraqi-led operations during the last few months of US troop presence in Iraq and the Iraqi security forces leadership is much more impressed by getting support from 1st SFOD-D than from an Army enlisted man with a 25* MOS. That's entirely beside the point that the Signals guy can do the job well enough.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 07:21 AM   #26
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Iraqi Security Forces ammunition

A lot of operators are more comfortable with a weapon that can use the most abundant local ammunition. PCs being PCs, the forensic issues involved in an unlawful shooting can also serve as incentives to carry at least one firearm loaded with the same rounds as the local police.

I know most Iraqi police are issued a Glock 19, but I don't know about ammo.

Do they buy 112, 115 or 124 grain 9x19mm NATO FMJ and if so, from which manufacturers?

Or do they use JHP ammo, like almost all US civilian police agencies, the Department of Homeland Security and even some specialist military police agencies/units carrying out law enforcement tasks? If so, which brands are they buying?

Edit: Found some evidence that at least some Iraqi security forces got Serbian PPU 9x19mm NATO 115 grain FMJ. No idea if that's widespread or not, but I can at least find several references to PPU head-stamped ammo in post-2003 Iraq.

That PPU ammo may have been subcontracted through Taos Industries, Inc., who appear to have supplied much of the Iraqi army. They very likely bought 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ from multiple suppliers, most of which appear to be based outside the US.

Sellier & Bellot, in CZ, sold 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ to the Iraqi Army in their own name and may also have been a subcontractor for Taos.

Jordani company Golden Wings Inc. supplied 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ ammunition, but it appears unlikely that they manufacture it themselves.

Interestingly, Keistler Police Supply, which provided the majority of Glock 19s for Iraqi security services, only specifies details about 'ammunition, 9mm' in one place. That is then listed as 9mm 124 grain THP.

Judging by what Keistler stocks, that seems only to fit one brand. That's Federal 9mm 124 THP (LE9T1), which is a JHP round in GURPS terms. However, it is left unclear whether all the millions of rounds that they supplied to IPS and IFP over a more than 2 year period were LE9T1 rounds, or if those were only a limited order of premium ammunition for special police teams.

A question remains, for those who have studied the subject, or have direct experience, how easy is it to get ammunition other than NATO standard 'ball' or FMJ in Iraq?

Both for contractors and for Iraqis?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 09-01-2014 at 11:25 AM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 08:09 PM   #27
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq

No one has any idea about whether the Iraqi security forces carry exclusively Ball/FMJ ammo or whether those of them who have law enforcement duties are issued JHP ammo like many civilian police forces?

What about a more general question? Apart from the arms bazaars that I know exist within Iraqi Kurdistan, where do people who own personal weapons in Iraq get them? How do they get ammo?

Are there gun bazaars? Gun stores? Or is this all a matter of gray or black market trading?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 02:33 AM   #28
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
No one has any idea about whether the Iraqi security forces carry exclusively Ball/FMJ ammo or whether those of them who have law enforcement duties are issued JHP ammo like many civilian police forces?
I suspect they're a great deal less open about this than US police forces.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 08:47 AM   #29
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I suspect they're a great deal less open about this than US police forces.
Their official stance may be close-mouthed, but until 2007-2008, a lot of Iraqi security forces were equipped through US purchasing and the existence of a Special Inspector General for the Iraq Reconstruction means that a whole lot of that process was documented in publicly available reports.

Individual policemen are also unlikely to be all that cagy when discussing their issue weapon and ammunition with Coalition or US forces.

I was also hoping that any US ammunition companies that got a contract or subcontract to supply ammunition to the security forces might have bragged about the fact online. While partially true (see above), none of them saw fit to mention specific brands.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:15 PM   #30
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op

The Honda Helix is an extremely popular scooter the world over, and its rear trunk could quite possibly hold a folding stock rifle.
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
equipment, high-tech, loadouts, modern firepower, special ops

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.