Crossbows have no recoil

[hcobb]

So there is no need or advantage to bracing them.

Also note same energy as the longbow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3L6Ek9zLVA

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

So there is no need or advantage to bracing them.

Also note same energy as the longbow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3L6Ek9zLVA

A really nice video.

But I would expect there to be an advantage in bracing a crossbow in that the firer can hold it more steady. There's absolutely no recoil on a digital camera, but it still benefits quite a lot from bracing. People in combat tend to be even more shaky than people taking pictures.

[David Bofinger]

Of course crossbows have recoil: they don't violate conservation of momentum. If the bolt is going forward then something else has to go backward. How much recoil they have depends on the "muzzle" energy of the bolt (less than a typical modern e.g. rifle) and the mass of the bolt (much larger than a bullet), I'd expect a fairly substantial recoil by rifle standards.

Originally Posted by hcobb

So there is no need or advantage to bracing them.

The recoil wouldn't affect accuracy since it's predictable for the first round and there is no second round. I'm not sure what "bracing" means in this context, but if you mean resting it on something then the advantage derives from not needing to support it and so being able to point it more accurately.

Also note same energy as the longbow.

The bow (lower force, longer distance) and the crossbow (high force, short distance) may seem very different but their fundamental physical limits are the same: the energy you can put in a prod is proportional to the volume of prod, or equivalently the mass of the prod, multiplied by various material-dependent quantities that a bow-maker has limited control over and some geometric quantities related to lamination. You can have a long thin prod like a longbow to get smaller force over a long stroke, or a short thick prod like a crossbow to have large force over a short stroke, but you can't have long stroke and a large force without making the prod larger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strain_energy

How much energy you get out in the arrow, rather than in the prod, depends mostly on ratio between the arrow and prod masses: rule of thumb if the arrow is about a twelfth the mass of the bow then you might get 50% of the energy into the arrow. I assume this is why the organic crossbows are more efficient than steel ones: the prod has a lower weight for a given strength.

[hcobb]

The "recoil" of striking with a broadsword is much much greater than of shooting a prod with the same KE.

Hence not having anywhere near the ST to handcock a crossbow is no detriment to firing it accurately.

[larsdangly]

Crossbows clearly have recoil. Every propelled missile has recoil, due to conservation of momentum. Though I think this isn't why you would want to brace them. I suspect the better reason to brace is that they are heavy and awkward, so you will achieve a better and more reproducible aim if you aren't trying to support them with your arms.

[hcobb]

Note resting the crossbow on the shoulder for stability rather than against the shoulder to resist recoil.

Guns have a tiny bit of recoil from a tiny bullet and a lot more from pointing a rocket engine forwards. Hence recoilless rifles that vent some of these gasses to the back.

[Skarg]

Compare to Recoil rules in GURPS. Firearms are given a recoil rating. It has no effect at all on the first shot. It only applies if you try to fire several shots in a row, which you can't even do with a crossbow.

Bracing has an effect which is about stability before firing.

Now, as for the ST penalty to fire an already-cocked crossbow you don't have the ST to load by hand without a crainquin or something, I would say you do have a point that THAT penalty probably isn't realistic, but is put into TFT for balance purposes, to avoid the powerful and not very "balanced" tactic of pre-cocking a bunch of heavy crossbows and then handing them out to a whole squad of people with whatever ST, and having them start a battle with everyone firing a 3d bolt.

Or doing long-range barrages with a pile of pre-cocked crossbows, as you've suggested in other threads as a way to abuse the auto-hit mechanic and lack of good long range rules and the lack of rules for further issues with very low adjDX.

Again referring to GURPS for a reality check, there is no penalty for firing a crossbow you can't cock by hand. IMO it is probably quite realistic to have no minST penalty for firing loaded crossbows, but it is also a very effective tactic and so can be a balance issue which is probably even more powerful in TFT than it is in GURPS, because TFT has weaker ways to avoid getting shot (in GURPS you could have a decent chance of avoiding getting hit by blocking a shield or diving for cover while dodging, but a group with pre-loaded heavy crossbows can still be deadly).

[hcobb]

Enforce encumbrance and ready rules. But TFT crossbow damage is way out of line against armored targets.

[Skarg]

That would be yet another separate issue, though reducing crossbow damage would affect how big (or would possibly remove) the balance effect is of letting people use heavy crossbows without the ST to cock them.

[hcobb]

A human being who can handcock a crossbow that can shoot through plate armor is at or above the upper limit of Conan style fiction. You can build crossbows that do shoot through plate armor, but these are siege engines.