How to Finance Slow and Sure Enchanting

[ericthered]

A recent thread got me thinking about the difficulties of slow and sure enchantment, specifically how to finance an item that takes a long time to make, and how to entice mages to work on year-long or longer projects that really don't allow for days off.

I'd like to assume that these items are economically worth it: the mages won't provide more benefit by healing disease or increasing crop yields or looting dungeons. I'd also like to assume that slow and sure enchanting is the best way to enchant these items.

Of course, the enchanters won't build these items by themselves. They can get their money just as quickly by casting spells day to day or with quick and dirty enchanting. So what social constructs can feed, clothe, and keep the mages on duty while on a large project? And how do you manage the "no days off" aspect?

I've got a few different ideas, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Of course, the enchanters won't build these items by themselves. They can get their money just as quickly by casting spells day to day or with quick and dirty enchanting. So what social constructs can feed, clothe, and keep the mages on duty while on a large project? And how do you manage the "no days off" aspect?

This is what capital is for. When you start a widget factory, you have to pay your workers before you sell your first widget.

[Phantasm]

I reduce casting time for such projects by permitting not just 1 energy per mage-day but full available energy per mage-day, generally 10-14 energy per mage.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I reduce casting time for such projects by permitting not just 1 energy per mage-day but full available energy per mage-day, generally 10-14 energy per mage.

That drastically alters the cost of enchanted items and the economics of their production. Not that that's necessarily wrong, but the consequences need to be considered.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That drastically alters the cost of enchanted items and the economics of their production. Not that that's necessarily wrong, but the consequences need to be considered.

Agreed. It makes them cheaper (as it takes ~1/10 the time to make; weeks instead of months) and more prevalent, but I still keep them as custom orders.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

It makes them cheaper (as it takes ~1/10 the time to make; weeks instead of months) and more prevalent, but I still keep them as custom orders.

It works if you want magical items to be, in effect, commonly available technology, rather than rare prototypes. That fits some stories and not others. So it's a question partly of what kinds of stories you want.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It works if you want magical items to be, in effect, commonly available technology, rather than rare prototypes. That fits some stories and not others. So it's a question partly of what kinds of stories you want.

There is another issue with S&S though it tends to be a technical rules issue. This is with the Power of the enchanted item and the supposed normality of Power 15 for items.

All Q&D items will be done at Power 15 due to factors inherent to the proceedure. S&S is different though. There's relatively little advantage to doing S&S in 6 man teams. Even if you do it should be with 6 guys at Skill-15 with no Skill-20 Master in sight.

The Skill-20 guy should be doing S&S by himself to produce Skill-20 items that he can (according to the rules) sell for a premium. The advantage of having a Skill-20 item looks a little theoretical to me. As an example, Yrth has very large areas with Normal Mana. If your Skill-15 item won't work if you go from Megalos to Caithness that is but one more reason to not go to Caithness. Megalans or even Cardiens already have many of those.

You might pay extra for a Skill-16 item if the Spell is Resisted but mny of the items that enhance the abilities of the user don't even make rolls resisted or not.

If examined over long periods of time there are also issues of Power level due to rising Skill levels from the On The Job Training rules. Withg 2 hours out of 8 counting for OJT and divided between Enchant and the other Spell being Enchanted the number of cp invested in those 2 Spells goes up every 100 days and whole levels no more than every 400 days. Even if you limit characters to skill levels of Attribute +10 that's Skill-27.

I tend to favor letting Enchanters use the Time spent rulles to reduce time by 10% for every -1. This would lead to Skill-25 Enchnters producing Power-16 items in 10% of the time but I feel that only makes S&S Enchanting viable compared to Q&D.

You don't have to choose my answer but I feel that you do need to examine the basis of who is doing S&S and why.

[Anthony]

The big problems with S&S are that it requires 7 days a week, and there's no way a skill that requires Magery 2, at least one Hard spell at 15, at least one VH spell at 15, and at least 9 other spells is an Average job.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The big problems with S&S are that it requires 7 days a week, and there's no way a skill that requires Magery 2, at least one Hard spell at 15, at least one VH spell at 15, and at least 9 other spells is an Average job.

At least it doesn't require a Skill-20 leader.

The required Skill levels issue is mitigated somewhat by the existence of a semi-common Talent. The 15s with Magery are similar to 12s without a Talent.

Note that whn I describe Magery as "semi-common" I'm comparing ti to alsmot every other Talent judged by Real World standards. I have met people with at least a level or two of Musical and Mathematical Talents and have good reason to beleive that higher levels do exist. Do I have any reason to believe that any other Talent exists in the Real World? Not really. I have met people with unexpectedly high levels of a single skill but not 3 or 4 related Skills not related to Math or Music.

Of course I haven't met anyone with Magery either but its' frequency is specified in most Fantasy worlds and is usually set high enough to roduce a specified amount of magic.

Levels of other Talents can of course be set at any level the GM wants whether he wants them for reasons of his own or to match some particular fictional model. However, if wants a "realistic" level that's probably quite close to zero.

[a humble lich]

First, I agree that the job of enchanter should pay much more than what is listed in magic. Quick and Dirty enchanters are also underpaid given their qualifications and the fact that they have to literally work to the point of collapse several times a day.

Second Slow and Sure enchanting doesn't actually require the enchanters work 7 days a week, it just takes longer if the enchanters take days off. "If a day’s work is skipped or interrupted, it takes two days to make it up." That means that it is quite possible to have the enchanters take a small amount of time off; say one day off a week will make the project take 14% longer but make the enchanters much happier.

As to the original question, here are a couple models of how Slow and Sure enchanting could work that I was thinking:

The classic model where the enchanter finds a few friends; they lock themselves in a tower for 6 months; and at then end they have a magic sword to sell.

An alternative way of funding magic item creation is to have employee enchanters. Here, the local duke hires a couple enchanters on salary who spend their time making magic items for him. If the duke hires three enchanters, they could make a sword with +1 accuracy in just over three months if you give them a few days off. After, the item is made the duke them gives them a month of to recuperate, because happy enchanters are productive enchanters. The enchanters get a steady income, and the duke gets 3 magic swords a year.

A similar model would be a local lord captures enchanters and uses them as slaves. Now the lord does not have to pay them or give them days off. However, their productivity most likely won't be as good as free enchanters, and keeping powerful mages as slaves without them running away would be a feat.

In a Technomancer type setting, you could have massive scale Slow and Sure enchanting. I was thinking of NASA hiring 1000 enchanters to make hideaway fuel tanks. That circle could make a fuel tank that hold 50 lbs every work week. If you pay them overtime and have them work a couple of weekends you could easily get to 100 or 200 lbs.