[Spaceships] Technical Solutions for Steam-Tech Planes and Airship Pirates . . .

vicky_molokh · 01-19-2011, 03:49 PM

Greetings, all!

No idea why I have such a boom of inspiration in this direction, but I'll share what thoughts I have and gladly hear what you have to comment or add.

I'm looking at SS7, and seeing (incomplete) ways of emulating the imagery found in Arcanum, Project Nomads and Abney Park: that of a world with a coexistence of airships, prop planes, and aerial aircraft carriers.

First, the TL of available components (systems) for such a setting will have to range from 5^ to 7^ (or, if one is nitpicky, from late 4^ to 5+2^).

Assume a baseline TL5 with the following additions:

Etherwood and Skystone are available. Using even one such system prevents the craft from being streamlined at all (they must be on the outside and have specific shape etc.).
A system corresponding to 'Antigravity Gasbags' can be used to negate the weight of a single craft, but they are not cumulative (meaning you still need some sort of thrust, or at least wings and some wind, to lift up). This is a large exposed system visually similar to a gasbag, but somewhat more robust. It is normally self-powered, but usually require energy (decide whether Auxiliary or a Power Point) when repairing. The system makes streamlining impossible, and is unfeasible for craft below SM+6. It costs 1/10th of the normal cost of Antigravity Gasbags found in SS7.
Ether Sails are available. They either work on Auxiliary power, or are somehow sun-powered. They also prevent a craft from being streamlined.
Ether Screws can either exist independently, or be used in lieu of normal propellers (absent from Spaceships so far).
(optional) To keep plane speeds down, declare that all Streamlining uses Nautical Lines, resulting in 1/5th top speeds.
Allow Light Alloy for SM+4 craft, simply because we need some sort of streamlineable material below TL7, none of which exists in RAW.
(optional) Manoeuvre Enhancement is available at this TL.
(optional) Mining and Refinery at this TL.
(optional) Ornithopter Wings and Robot Legs, and maaaybe even Tails and Robot Arms are available at this TL, or with the addition of the High TL advantage and/or Gadgeteering. Obviously, in this case External Clamps should be available.
Power Plant - Steam Engine is available, and produces 1 Power Point, costing the same as a Fuel Cell. It consume roughly a single hangar worth of wood and water (at roughly 2:1 ratio) per hour. I'm guessing it should run one hour on 'internal fuel', but require an Engine Room to supply the fuel/water under typical circumstances.
Power Plant - Experimental Combustion Engine might be available at at least twice the cost, but it is threatening to increase heavier-than-air craft range more than needed. If it is available, gasoline/diesel/etc. should be expensive, or the engine should be inefficient.
Weapon Batteries: The Missile Launcher is available on in the 'Bombs' version; conventional guns exist, but their range should be figured somehow differently; rockets exist; lightning cannon may optionally exist, again, with adjusted range; Catapult stats are used for harpoons, I guess.
Magical Life support may be the proper switch to represent not needing air recycling.
Personal equipment TL should be mostly around 5, with the optional divergent-tech developments such as low-tech gliders (see GURPS Fantasy p.00).

Some cost adjustments are also necessary. Assuming starting wealth of $5k, appropriate for TL6 (average between 5 and 5+2), the following adjustments make a light steamplane or a moderate tramp freighter available for 30 and 50 points respectively, as long as the following adjustments are made:

Control Rooms cost ×0.05 - there's no need for big libraries or the like, no interplanetary navigation etc. Point defense is unavailable, and weapon accuracies may be lowered (might be irrelevant since weapons need to be restatted anyway).
Habitat costs should be roughly ×0.2 - no sealing, no complex life support etc. Might be even lower (currently it costs twice as much as a control room). Do note that it includes a galley and whatever other minimal comforts required for constant living.
'Antigravity Gasbag' cost is ×0.1 (not exactly the same system - see above).
Fuel Cells cost double or more if they're actual Fuel Cells; use same cost if you use them to represent Steam Engines.
Ether Sail cost should probably be halved to promote using them for LTA craft.
Weapon batteries should cost half as much as normal, to bring them more in line with some pieces of contemporary artillery of the similar period and calibre. Also, this prevents guns from being the most expensive loot from a downed vessel.
Ammunition costs should probably be adjusted too.

By rough estimates, this results in:

An SM+7 freighter with one set of Ether Sails ($300k), Control Room ($30k), Habitat for the crew ($60k), an 'Engine Room' ($100k, actually all the required maintenance space for the sails controls, auxiliary power generation etc.), the minimum 3 systems worth of Etherwood ($100k each), and 14 Cargo Holds being worth around $790k - conveniently below a Filthy Rich's 80% limit, leaving 20% for more personal gear. Though it is more efficient in terms of cargo transported per unit of time to have up to 3 more Ether Sail systems (though more expensive too).
An SM+4 attack plane with one Major Battery ($50k), five Ether Screws ($10k each), five Steam Power Plants ($5k each), a Control Room ($1k), 4 Light Alloy Armor layers ($5k each, distributed as appropriate), wings ($50k), and some cargo space left just in case ($0×4), doing roughly 1G/500mph - being around $196k, barely below the lifetime savings of a Wealthy pirate pilot.
A heavy (SM+8, 50yds) self-sufficient (with a Factory and a Habitat for two dozen crew, more with Magical Life Support) military/pirate (2 weapon batteries) carrier (2 hangars, enough for 6 parasite craft) airship with double-layered armor (Skystone + Etherwood, resulting in +100% redundancy) will cost around $20M - barely afforded in the Cheap (see below) version by a Millionaire.
Either can be reduced with SS2's rules on Cheap ships (½ cost to buy, but 1% of the original cost per month wasted on maintenance). I wouldn't risk buying a Very Cheap version. :)

Whatdya think? Comments, questions, additions?

Thanks in advance!

Cernig · 01-19-2011, 06:00 PM

All interesting stuff, Molokh. There's a few points where I'd need to get into SS7 to quibble and IDHMBWM. I think weapons systems would need re-jigging with reference to Hi-Tech, for one thing.

Also, I'd keep the full cost for control rooms. You'd have, at best, bulky and unreliable Babbage Engines for computation of artillery fire etc - and all those paper charts!

You might want to look at the 3rd Ed.'s Steamtech for further ideas. IIRC, liquidized coal is avaliable at TL5+1 equivalent or thereabouts and offers a reasonable (but less efficient) facsimile of gas/deisel. That would let you use fuel tanks instead of hangers full of wood. (And, of course, hydrogen burners might offer a power source, if one with far more explosive fuel tankage).

(Come to think of it, Steampunk/Steamtech should be high on the list of books needing a 4e update anyways, and maybe an SS supplement.)

vicky_molokh · 01-20-2011, 05:25 AM

Adding Ornithopters:

A sample ornithopter is an SM+4 attack craft. It is considered a fiddly craft, often a sign of a Gadgeteer in the works.
It has the usual 4 armor systems, a weapon battery (or several) and a control room, same as for a plane.
It replaces Ether Screws with 4 systems worth of Ornithopter Wings, $50k each, accompanied by 4 or 5 steam power plants.
It optionally may have one or two systems dedicated to birdlike Robot Legs ($100k per system), and a Weapon Tail ($20k).

Its advantages over the plane are higher provided speed/acceleration per system, and slightly higher Handling. It also looks fancy. :)
Its disadvantages are a fixed top speed of 500 mph, and a price of easily half a million GURP$.

vierasmarius · 01-21-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

<SNIP>

Whatdya think? Comments, questions, additions?

Thanks in advance!

I like where you're going, and I'll help as I can. Now to pull out my old Steampunk book... :)

vicky_molokh · 02-01-2013, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered

The "one hangar of fuel per hour" looks a little off to me. does that mean a single "fuel tank" will only last one hour?

By memory, I think I was talking about coal. So no, not fuel tank. Hangar or cargo bay.

Mailanka · 02-01-2013, 02:09 AM

In case you hadn't heard of it, Guns of Icarus is a (cheap, simple) computer game featuring airships and steamplanes (or, at least, biplanes and such). If you need even more inspiration.

01-19-2011, 03:49 PM	#1
vicky_molokh GURPS FAQ Keeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kyïv, Ukraine	[Spaceships] Technical Solutions for Steam-Tech Planes and Airship Pirates . . . Greetings, all! No idea why I have such a boom of inspiration in this direction, but I'll share what thoughts I have and gladly hear what you have to comment or add. I'm looking at SS7, and seeing (incomplete) ways of emulating the imagery found in Arcanum, Project Nomads and Abney Park: that of a world with a coexistence of airships, prop planes, and aerial aircraft carriers. First, the TL of available components (systems) for such a setting will have to range from 5^ to 7^ (or, if one is nitpicky, from late 4^ to 5+2^). Assume a baseline TL5 with the following additions: Etherwood and Skystone are available. Using even one such system prevents the craft from being streamlined at all (they must be on the outside and have specific shape etc.). A system corresponding to 'Antigravity Gasbags' can be used to negate the weight of a single craft, but they are not cumulative (meaning you still need some sort of thrust, or at least wings and some wind, to lift up). This is a large exposed system visually similar to a gasbag, but somewhat more robust. It is normally self-powered, but usually require energy (decide whether Auxiliary or a Power Point) when repairing. The system makes streamlining impossible, and is unfeasible for craft below SM+6. It costs 1/10th of the normal cost of Antigravity Gasbags found in SS7. Ether Sails are available. They either work on Auxiliary power, or are somehow sun-powered. They also prevent a craft from being streamlined. Ether Screws can either exist independently, or be used in lieu of normal propellers (absent from Spaceships so far). (optional) To keep plane speeds down, declare that all Streamlining uses Nautical Lines, resulting in 1/5th top speeds. Allow Light Alloy for SM+4 craft, simply because we need some sort of streamlineable material below TL7, none of which exists in RAW. (optional) Manoeuvre Enhancement is available at this TL. (optional) Mining and Refinery at this TL. (optional) Ornithopter Wings and Robot Legs, and maaaybe even Tails and Robot Arms are available at this TL, or with the addition of the High TL advantage and/or Gadgeteering. Obviously, in this case External Clamps should be available. Power Plant - Steam Engine is available, and produces 1 Power Point, costing the same as a Fuel Cell. It consume roughly a single hangar worth of wood and water (at roughly 2:1 ratio) per hour. I'm guessing it should run one hour on 'internal fuel', but require an Engine Room to supply the fuel/water under typical circumstances. Power Plant - Experimental Combustion Engine might be available at at least twice the cost, but it is threatening to increase heavier-than-air craft range more than needed. If it is available, gasoline/diesel/etc. should be expensive, or the engine should be inefficient. Weapon Batteries: The Missile Launcher is available on in the 'Bombs' version; conventional guns exist, but their range should be figured somehow differently; rockets exist; lightning cannon may optionally exist, again, with adjusted range; Catapult stats are used for harpoons, I guess. Magical Life support may be the proper switch to represent not needing air recycling. Personal equipment TL should be mostly around 5, with the optional divergent-tech developments such as low-tech gliders (see GURPS Fantasy p.00). Some cost adjustments are also necessary. Assuming starting wealth of $5k, appropriate for TL6 (average between 5 and 5+2), the following adjustments make a light steamplane or a moderate tramp freighter available for 30 and 50 points respectively, as long as the following adjustments are made: Control Rooms cost ×0.05 - there's no need for big libraries or the like, no interplanetary navigation etc. Point defense is unavailable, and weapon accuracies may be lowered (might be irrelevant since weapons need to be restatted anyway). Habitat costs should be roughly ×0.2 - no sealing, no complex life support etc. Might be even lower (currently it costs twice as much as a control room). Do note that it includes a galley and whatever other minimal comforts required for constant living. 'Antigravity Gasbag' cost is ×0.1 (not exactly the same system - see above). Fuel Cells cost double or more if they're actual Fuel Cells; use same cost if you use them to represent Steam Engines. Ether Sail cost should probably be halved to promote using them for LTA craft. Weapon batteries should cost half as much as normal, to bring them more in line with some pieces of contemporary artillery of the similar period and calibre. Also, this prevents guns from being the most expensive loot from a downed vessel. Ammunition costs should probably be adjusted too. By rough estimates, this results in: An SM+7 freighter with one set of Ether Sails ($300k), Control Room ($30k), Habitat for the crew ($60k), an 'Engine Room' ($100k, actually all the required maintenance space for the sails controls, auxiliary power generation etc.), the minimum 3 systems worth of Etherwood ($100k each), and 14 Cargo Holds being worth around $790k - conveniently below a Filthy Rich's 80% limit, leaving 20% for more personal gear. Though it is more efficient in terms of cargo transported per unit of time to have up to 3 more Ether Sail systems (though more expensive too). An SM+4 attack plane with one Major Battery ($50k), five Ether Screws ($10k each), five Steam Power Plants ($5k each), a Control Room ($1k), 4 Light Alloy Armor layers ($5k each, distributed as appropriate), wings ($50k), and some cargo space left just in case ($0×4), doing roughly 1G/500mph - being around $196k, barely below the lifetime savings of a Wealthy pirate pilot. A heavy (SM+8, 50yds) self-sufficient (with a Factory and a Habitat for two dozen crew, more with Magical Life Support) military/pirate (2 weapon batteries) carrier (2 hangars, enough for 6 parasite craft) airship with double-layered armor (Skystone + Etherwood, resulting in +100% redundancy) will cost around $20M - barely afforded in the Cheap (see below) version by a Millionaire. Either can be reduced with SS2's rules on Cheap ships (½ cost to buy, but 1% of the original cost per month wasted on maintenance). I wouldn't risk buying a Very Cheap version. :) Whatdya think? Comments, questions, additions? Thanks in advance! __________________ Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper Last edited by vicky_molokh; 01-20-2011 at 05:11 AM.

01-19-2011, 06:00 PM	#2
Cernig Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas	Re: [Spaceships] Technical Solutions for Steam-Tech Planes and Airship Pirates . . . All interesting stuff, Molokh. There's a few points where I'd need to get into SS7 to quibble and IDHMBWM. I think weapons systems would need re-jigging with reference to Hi-Tech, for one thing. Also, I'd keep the full cost for control rooms. You'd have, at best, bulky and unreliable Babbage Engines for computation of artillery fire etc - and all those paper charts! You might want to look at the 3rd Ed.'s Steamtech for further ideas. IIRC, liquidized coal is avaliable at TL5+1 equivalent or thereabouts and offers a reasonable (but less efficient) facsimile of gas/deisel. That would let you use fuel tanks instead of hangers full of wood. (And, of course, hydrogen burners might offer a power source, if one with far more explosive fuel tankage). (Come to think of it, Steampunk/Steamtech should be high on the list of books needing a 4e update anyways, and maybe an SS supplement.)

01-20-2011, 05:25 AM	#3
vicky_molokh GURPS FAQ Keeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kyïv, Ukraine	Re: [Spaceships] Technical Solutions for Steam-Tech Planes and Airship Pirates . . . Adding Ornithopters: A sample ornithopter is an SM+4 attack craft. It is considered a fiddly craft, often a sign of a Gadgeteer in the works. It has the usual 4 armor systems, a weapon battery (or several) and a control room, same as for a plane. It replaces Ether Screws with 4 systems worth of Ornithopter Wings, $50k each, accompanied by 4 or 5 steam power plants. It optionally may have one or two systems dedicated to birdlike Robot Legs ($100k per system), and a Weapon Tail ($20k). Its advantages over the plane are higher provided speed/acceleration per system, and slightly higher Handling. It also looks fancy. :) Its disadvantages are a fixed top speed of 500 mph, and a price of easily half a million GURP$. __________________ Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

02-01-2013, 02:09 AM	#6
Mailanka Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands	Re: [Spaceships] Technical Solutions for Steam-Tech Planes and Airship Pirates . . . In case you hadn't heard of it, Guns of Icarus is a (cheap, simple) computer game featuring airships and steamplanes (or, at least, biplanes and such). If you need even more inspiration. __________________ My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.