GURPS or Modern D20?

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Armin

Different strokes for different folks, as they say. I liked the D20 Modern view of classes much more than the typical D&D and Pathfinder view, and enjoyed playing in the D20 Modern game my group played for a while.

I concur. I was skeptical when I first heard about the each attribute being a base class, but it turned out to be cleverly done. Indeed, there was more thought put to those than to alternate magic systems, and it shows.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I concur. I was skeptical when I first heard about the each attribute being a base class, but it turned out to be cleverly done.

That's not my problem with it really. I find mainly that it's approach to combat, especially firearms is so uselessly abstracted as to be untranslatable into in-game descriptions. It resembles neither film, fiction, or reality. For D&D this is acceptable, even expected, just as we don't expect Dr. Pepper to taste like anything else. D20 Modern has pretensions to stimulation and just doesn't work. Note that I have the same problem with the Storyteller system (although I haven't played any nWoD so that may have changed).

[Danukian]

Originally Posted by Armin

Different strokes for different folks, as they say. I liked the D20 Modern view of classes much more than the typical D&D and Pathfinder view, and enjoyed playing in the D20 Modern game my group played for a while.

Armin

I basically agree, but the thing that ticked me off about d20 Modern was that it came out just after the 30yrs of D&D hoopla, which proudly boasted "D&D is no longer one dimensional characters - where all Thieves are fast and all Fighters are just Strong Guys!", then I buy D20 Modern, check out the classes: Strong Hero, Fast Hero, etc...


as to the OP: I agree 100% with the opinion that you should check out GURPS lite and see how you like it before investing.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's not my problem with it really. I find mainly that it's approach to combat, especially firearms is so uselessly abstracted as to be untranslatable into in-game descriptions. It resembles neither film, fiction, or reality. For D&D this is acceptable, even expected, just as we don't expect Dr. Pepper to taste like anything else. D20 Modern has pretensions to stimulation and just doesn't work. Note that I have the same problem with the Storyteller system (although I haven't played any nWoD so that may have changed).

I pretty much agree. D20 Modern amounts to changing D&D from a system that can do one specific type of game well into a system that can do many types of games poorly.

[Artifex]

... And yet, each and everyone just ignored my 2 cents on using Mutants & Masterminds... *sigh*

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Artifex

... And yet, each and everyone just ignored my 2 cents on using Mutants & Masterminds... *sigh*

M&M is a great system for supers games! I'm not sure it's all that relevant here though, as the OP was comparing D20 Modern and GURPS. If you open it up to any game system whatsoever, this question becomes much more complicated. Also I didn't get the impression the OP was interested in a supers specific system.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by wellspring

And I'm eagerly awaiting bestiary as well. Though hopefully it or its PDF supplements aren't limited to just animals.

Yeah, I fully agree.
I hope that there will be at least one chapter with fictional creatures.
Or even better, they include a few of them as "specials" in each of the generic sections, e.g. if water animals are covered it would be very nice to have some invented exotic water creatures, too, at the same place. This would also be very helpful to use the examples as a base for own inventions.


@Bushido8000:
One of the most important things is that you don't care much about the long runnning rumors of GURPS being overly complicated etc.
Most of the guys saying that don't know much about the system, often they did not even play it.
Just checking out GURPS Lite you'll most likely find that the basics are very easy. And just ignore details you don't need or like or ask here in the forums. Later adding Basic Set gives you all the cool options you're missing, but first start with an reduced set of rules, so it's still simple ;)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Yeah, I fully agree.
I hope that there will be at least one chapter with fictional creatures.
Or even better, they include a few of them as "specials" in each of the generic sections, e.g. if water animals are covered it would be very nice to have some invented exotic water creatures, too, at the same place. This would also be very helpful to use the examples as a base for own inventions.

I really think there are two completely different books that people talk about here. Some want a book with real world creatures giving full templates (for allies and shape-shifters) and some attention to realistic ecology and behavior. Others want a "monster-manual" of fantastic creatures with short-form stat blocks and lots of combat notes. To some extent the latter is covered by the DFM and the CotN series.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Some want a book with real world creatures giving full templates (for allies and shape-shifters) and some attention to realistic ecology and behavior. Others want a "monster-manual" of fantastic creatures with short-form stat blocks and lots of combat notes. To some extent the latter is covered by the DFM and the CotN series.

Well, I guess the 4e Bestiary will replace and expand the old 3e Bestiary which was completely about mundane creatures.
Of course there are also 3e Fantasy/Space Bestiary etc. but it's unlikely that we'll get several different Hardcover Bestiaries, so I think it will most likely focus on the real world. Anyway some additional stuff on fictional creatures would make this a great and much more appealing book, though, because "only" normal animals and nothing else is not what most players want...
(though we need a lot of stats for many different mundane creatures anyway).
Thus my vote is to double the fun with including a good portion of fiction in the Bestiary as well! :)

I'd say we have something like a classic d&d style monster manual when DF Monsters has at least 1 or 2 more volumes published.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Well, I guess the 4e Bestiary will replace and expand the old 3e Bestiary which was completely about mundane creatures (and there are also 3e Fantasy/Space Bestiary etc.)

The Bestiary did actually have a few folkloric and imaginary critters.

Also, unlike the 3e Bestiary, a 4e book needs to have full templates.

It's unlikely that we'll get several different Hardcover Bestiaries , so I think it will most likely focus on the real world.

Yeah, but we can get more DFM's and CotN's which I think is what at least half the people that want "a bestiary" are actually asking for.

@OP
One big difference between d20 Modern and GURPS 4e that I don't think has been mentioned already: d20 Modern is no longer in print or supported by the publisher.