GURPS or Modern D20?

[Blind Mapmaker]

There has been a lot of good advice so far. What I'd like to add is that finding a group is probably more important than spending money on a game, especially if you are not very experienced with RPGs.

If you have a game store anywhere near you ask them whether you can put up a note for this purpose. Finding experienced GURPS players is not that easy, but with a bit of luck you'll find a collector who's interested in trying out some of their books.

In my experience there are quite a few more GURPS collectors than there are players. You should realize that just because you play one game doesn't mean you can't adapt the ideas you find in another game. This is easier to do with GURPS as a basis than with D20, but there are also a lot of GURPS books that don't have a lot of rules: all the historical supplements, things like Cops, Mysteries, Horror and the like are mostly about settings, real-life knowledge or atmosphere.

This might all be a bit much for a new roleplayer. So I'd suggest you a have a look at GURPS Lite and see if the rules are too complicated. If they aren't try Caravan to Ein Arris. If you want to adapt it to a post-apocalyptic setting, just ask here on the forums. People will help you with that. Just bear with us when we get a bit too long-winded and over-enthusiastic. If you liked your first adventure, try to find someone playing D20 Modern to have something to compare it to.

If you decide for GURPS, buy the Basic Set and GURPS Action 1 & 2 only. This will get you something like "classes" in D20 Modern and a good idea how to run a modern campaign that feels like an action movie. If you are more interested in the mystical aspects of D20 Modern (what is generally called Urban Fantasy) buy some books of the Monster Hunter series. This will give you the tools to run a campaign like Buffy or The Dresden Files.

The only catch is that Action and Monster Hunters are only available on http://e23.sjgames.com/ which means you need a credit card or a Paypal account to buy them. On the other hand you can get some idea about what the books are like by looking at the preview PDFs. However, these books will really help you to build a campaign and characters to fit it. The Basic Set can be overwhelming in this regard.

If you can't find GURPS players in your area, you might also ask here on the forums. There might also be people who play GURPS online via chat or some specialised tools. In fact, if you want to give it a try, message me. I'm busy until mid-May, but if you speak fluent English or German we can possibly work something out around that time.

[dbm]

There is another factor to consider (which might not be a problem in the short term, but could be in the mid- to long term): D20 Modern is essentially a dead game. It is based of the 3E DnD engine, and Wizards are currently working on 5e; 4e was a radical change, too.

GURPS is a living game, even if the rate of producing new material is more 'steady' than other , highly prolific companies.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by dbm

There is another factor to consider (which might not be a problem in the short term, but could be in the mid- to long term): D20 Modern is essentially a dead game. It is based of the 3E DnD engine, and Wizards are currently working on 5e; 4e was a radical change, too.

I wouldn't go that far. With the open-source SRD, there are a lot of third-party companies still producing content for 3.5 and its derivatives, including D20 Modern and Pathfinder. DnD 4e is a more narrowly focused rule set, not appropriate to much outside fantasy hack'n'slash, which is probably why there's no 4e Modern game. If 5e is a more flexible system, perhaps we'll see it used to tackle other genres. Until then, players of D&D will likely continue to use D20 Modern, since it's the smallest jump from what they're familiar with.

[Earther]

Pathfinder granted a stay of execution for D20. But eventually it will all be in the dumpsters. Some of it will find new life as el cheapo PDFs and in the public domain, as smaller companies find it harder and harder to get their games published after yet more book deals fold.

[wellspring]

I was pretty much in the original poster's shoes about a year ago.

Before that, I played D&D3.5 extensively, D&D Modern a little, and Star Wars D20 a little (plus other systems). D&D4 drove me away. I had been very resistant to using GURPS, stemming from the chaos and complexity of 3rd ed. I only took a second look because I loved what I'd heard about the Transhuman Space setting-- and even then I spent months trying to adapt it to D20 or World of Darkness before deciding to give GURPS itself a try. GURPS 4 is a fantastic system that now I consider superior to D20 even in it's native habitat: medieval high-fantasy.

Other posters have done a good job explaining GURPS's advantages. A few other things I've noticed that might help you:

• The workload on Players in GURPS is much higher during character creation. Once the character is done, it's much easier to actually play than in D20. All that fiddliness about leveling up is gone, for example. No messing around with Wealth rolls.
  
• The workload on the GM, especially at first, is very high. You won't find a "monster manual" so be ready with a few generic characters, and if you're stuck winging it, generic human combatants only require a couple key stats to be playable, and you can ball-park them in your head. Creating a few generic templates will help you immensely-- don't try to hand-craft the characters, especially the henchmen, as if they were PC's.
  
• Consider starting yourself and your friends with GURPS Lite. It's got virtually everything you need to get off the ground. Any new system is going to feel "weird" because the weirdness of the systems you know is baked into your expectations. GURPS is actually very clean as a rule system.
  
• Don't try to use every campaign option. The combat rules are fairly modular, and using rules like hit location can make the game much more complicated if you're just starting out. If you have a GURPS expert in your group, that helps, but I'm assuming that that's supposed to be you.
  
• Support is roughly equivalent in a modern setting. D20 Modern has an extensive and well-researched firearms list. So does GURPS (the book is High Tech). Tactical Shooting, Martial Arts, Social Engineering and maybe Gun Fu are all good supplements for you. A cool part of GURPS is that (for the most part) supplements don't add new rules, they show you ways to use the existing rules to get the game you want.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by wellspring

You won't find a "monster manual"

Well, not quite true actually ;)

There are a lot of creature and generic template compilations, though unfortunately not in one big volume - if it's ready 4th ed. GURPS Bestiary will be a great step in this direction, although AFAIK it will focus on real world animals ...

However, you'll find a lot of templates in different sourcebooks, Hardcover and PDF. The one most similar to a D&D Monster Manual is "GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters", the beginning of a series with a lot of Dungeon Meat =)

Then we have a whole book about everything with Dragons (GURPS Dragons).

GURPS Fantasy, Banestorm (Fantasy-World) and GURPS Horror both include many templates which are really useful not only in the specific genre but also in related settings (for instance a Vampire from Horror could also be used in a modern WoD-like game).

There is the whole series "GURPS Creatures of the Night" which brings you a lot of different stuff, just check out the content for something you like...

You can also use 3e material like the 'Fantasy Bestiary' for instance, the conversions can be done very quickly.

There are different unofficial pdf creature compilations available online.

...

Originally Posted by wellspring

...so be ready with a few generic characters, and if you're stuck winging it, generic human combatants only require a couple key stats to be playable, and you can ball-park them in your head. Creating a few generic templates will help you immensely-- don't try to hand-craft the characters, especially the henchmen, as if they were PC's.

Good advice, I also think learning to to improvise NPCs is important! (and it's easy once you have some experience with the system). Later on you'll be able to make this on the fly, don't care about character points for non-player chars, just write down what you want! ;)

[wellspring]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Well, not quite true actually ;)

There are a lot of creature and generic template compilations, though unfortunately not in one big volume - if it's ready 4th ed. GURPS Bestiary will be a great step in this direction, although AFAIK it will focus on real world animals ...

Not being in one big volume is the part I was emphasizing.

A new GM won't have most of those books and will be hard-pressed to find where the particular template they need is located. At least, that's been my experience.

And I'm eagerly awaiting bestiary as well. Though hopefully it or its PDF supplements aren't limited to just animals.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I like D&D/Pathfinder, but find D20 Modern to be near useless.

I can't speak to the system in particular; the d20 Star Wars looked all right, the d20 Conan quite good. I read the SG-1 RPG, which used d20 Modern as its engine, a long time ago. I ran a long D&D 3e campaign, but have no interest in 3.5e or Pathfinder.

Originally Posted by Earther

Pathfinder granted a stay of execution for D20. But eventually it will all be in the dumpsters. Some of it will find new life as el cheapo PDFs and in the public domain, as smaller companies find it harder and harder to get their games published after yet more book deals fold.

I really doubt that, unless cheap used book stores disappear (and I don't expect that for at least 20 years, although more and more will give up their storefront). Plenty of people still play 1e D&D, Basic D&D, GURPS 3e, old editions of Traveller, and so on. And who is to say how long Pathfinder will last?

[Armin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I like D&D/Pathfinder, but find D20 Modern to be near useless.

Different strokes for different folks, as they say. I liked the D20 Modern view of classes much more than the typical D&D and Pathfinder view, and enjoyed playing in the D20 Modern game my group played for a while.

Originally Posted by dbm

There is another factor to consider (which might not be a problem in the short term, but could be in the mid- to long term): D20 Modern is essentially a dead game. It is based of the 3E DnD engine, and Wizards are currently working on 5e; 4e was a radical change, too.

As mentioned above, with the SRD available, and used bookstores, and various supplements from third parties still available on PDF, dead is relative.

Aside from that, D20 Modern itself may be "dead", but the folks who released a bunch of supplements for it went and made themselves a new version with their own take on it, called Modern 20.

Edit: Having said all that, I encourage the original poster to check out GURPS Lite, and try GURPS. Once you get over the differences between D&D-style and GURPS-style, the flexibility of GURPS is really an advantage over D20.

Armin

[jacobmuller]

D20 versus GURPS...
IMHO that's like Dungeon Seige versus Oblivion/ Skyrim.
Or like video games in general versus paper & dice games.
I like the ideas presented in D20 games but I find the system restrictive.
I'll agree, however, that the versatility of GURPS can be mindblowing.

So on the one hand you have a straight forward choice delineated predefined setting but on the other you have absolutely anything you want... and you don't have to buy to try.

PS have you looked at any other games systems?