[Spaceships] Ornithopter Wings no longer TL5+2!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yeah, I agree that ornithopters for Spacecraft is purely "clockpunk" (and really only makes sense with luminferous ether or something anyway). Is vicky arguing that ornithopter powered spacecraft are TL9 or merely that practical (non-novelty) ornithopters are?

Actually, I wouldn't want to argue that they are practical*. Just that the drivetrain itself is not necessarily a divergent-TL one. Now, the issues of practical size and mass are another matter - craft with inflated hot air balloons don't fit the G:SS standards of mass/size either.

* == Actually, I'm pretty sure some stuff in G:SS is impractical. I recall some jet/turbine was in every way better than another, no worse in cost, and no higher in TL.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It is in certain applications, tactical recon for example. Also ornithopters scale to pretty small platforms, which jet engines don't.

Who's going to use a jet engine? Propellers have superior performance at low velocities, and can be made as small as ornithopters, you can buy RC planes that are roughly hummingbird weight.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Who's going to use a jet engine? Propellers have superior performance at low velocities, and can be made as small as ornithopters, you can buy RC planes that are roughly hummingbird weight.

Prop-driven fixed wings can't hover and don't look like birds. If you need something that can hover and loiter for long times it's a better choice. If you want something that can be camouflaged as an animal it's your only choice.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Actually, I wouldn't want to argue that they are practical*. Just that the drivetrain itself is not necessarily a divergent-TL one. Now, the issues of practical size and mass are another matter - craft with inflated hot air balloons don't fit the G:SS standards of mass/size either.

* == Actually, I'm pretty sure some stuff in G:SS is impractical. I recall some jet/turbine was in every way better than another, no worse in cost, and no higher in TL.

I know that I never like their status as divergent either. They are superscience for efficient human carrying sized ships. TL 9 or so for small autonomous drones.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I know that I never like their status as divergent either.

It's in SS7 for clockpunk settings. Spacecraft flying through the ether on mighty wings is absolutely divergent, it requires divergent physics!

Just because something exists in our TL progression doesn't mean it's not also possible in divergent ones. That Eberron's lightning rail is TL4+2 (or whatever), doesn't mean that trains aren't still TL5.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Prop-driven fixed wings can't hover and don't look like birds.

Well, they can hover if they have tilt rotors and sufficiently powerful props, it's not particularly hard for microplanes to hover. Looking like birds is a rather specialized purpose.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It's in SS7 for clockpunk settings. Spacecraft flying through the ether on mighty wings is absolutely divergent, it requires divergent physics!

That is the definition of superscience not divergence.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, they can hover if they have tilt rotors and sufficiently powerful props, it's not particularly hard for microplanes to hover. Looking like birds is a rather specialized purpose.

Call me when they can actually make a tilt rotor that doesn't regularly kill everyone board.
I may be behind on new tech, so ignore the sarcasm if anyone's done it by now. :)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That is the definition of superscience not divergence.

Is it? Then almost all "-punk" divergence is also superscience. It's not plausible that Da Vinci could have built a working Ornithopter at all. I guess you can just pencil in the "^" if that makes you happier.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Call me when they can actually make a tilt rotor that doesn't regularly kill everyone board.
I may be behind on new tech, so ignore the sarcasm if anyone's done it by now. :)

The V-22 has been in service since 2007. There's been only one crash since then and it was a pretty typical combat aircraft incident (and could of happened to any aircraft under the same circumstances).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Call me when they can actually make a tilt rotor that doesn't regularly kill everyone board.

I was talking about microplanes; zero crew on board anyway, and in some cases terminal velocity so low they can fall out of the sky and just bounce. The Osprey works better than any similar mass ornithopter (since no such even exist).