GURPS Market share

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

(GURPS Horror was the last planed HC for the foreseeable future right?)

I think that Discworld 2e is moderately foreseeable.

[the adventurer]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I think that Discworld 2e is moderately foreseeable.

You can't see my grin, but I assure you it is very big.


But at least Discworld has some significant 'outside Roleplaying' interest. The first Discworld book is just a generally good Discworld source book (if one increasingly out of date*)


*any chance of Time Monks getting a write up in the new edition? Cause' that would be just wonderful.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Mettius

This is an old thread, but I found it as I was looking for an answer.

According to ICv2, GURPS doesn't make the top 5 (in sales). (But how could it, when new releases are years apart). ;)

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/21403.html

Yeah...SJGames release GURPS related things every Thursday...so...weekly rather then years apart. And here is where there are problems with that list. That list really seems to be print products only. SJGames is doing a LOT of pdf releases. As a matter of fact, I freely admit that SJGames is getting a lot more of my money than it used to because of the large number of regular inexpensive releases. And RPGNow does a brisk trade in pdfs...and DriveThruRPG and some others. These new sales venues don't seem to be taken into account at all. So...I'm skeptical.

[Ronnke]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

Its pretty clear that Digital is the face of near future pnpRPGing, SJG at least looks like they're one of the best on top of that trend.

We are all witness to evolution at work with tabletop PRGs, natural selection is doing its thing and the strongest and most adaptable will survive. The cataclysmic event that brought on this rapid evolution was the d20 glut, MMO's and consoles. The dust is beginning to settle and the new species that will go on and survive are starting to emerge. The new world for tabletop RPG's, will be digital books, print-on-demand, and virtual tabletops for online play. For the most part, SJG appears to be positioning itself as one of those survivors.

The "force is strong" with SJG in the digital media department, e23 is serving its GURPS customers well, and it's not just an in-house eStore.

Print-on-demand, this is at least something SJG is looking into. I seem to recall Steve mentioned in his most recent report to the stakeholders that it's on the cards and there was even a room set aside for this. With an in-house PoD solution Warehouse23 will go nuts printing and selling currently out-of-print books for both GURPS and all the affiliates that sell through w23.

On the virtual tabletop front, GURPS is positioned well, however this has been entirely a community/fan effort instead of SJG. GURPS is supported in the 3 leading VTTs (Virtual Tabletops), these being Fantasy Grounds, Battlegrounds, and MapTool.

So while GURPS doesn't make the top 5 in bookstore and distributor sales, we should remember that they are mediums for a model that is contracting rapidly. Even traditional bookstores are going the way of FLGS, to be replaced by outlets like Amazon and Lulu. GURPS has been around for 25 years, it's going to be around for a while yet, it just needs to be kept in the public eye. Keeping it in the public eye is something SJG and the community must work on.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by trooper6

RPGNow does a brisk trade in pdfs...and DriveThruRPG and some others. These new sales venues don't seem to be taken into account at all. So...I'm skeptical.

Until a recent format change, Ed Healy was doing a biweekly list of the top ten electronic RPG products. Whatever the latest e23 product was would reliably show up there, often high on the list, and the better-selling ones would be there two or three times running. That doesn't say anything about long-term sales and overall market share, but it does suggest that GURPS probably at least holds its own in the electronic market.

[Mettius]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Yeah...SJGames release GURPS related things every Thursday...so...weekly rather then years apart. And here is where there are problems with that list. That list really seems to be print products only. These new sales venues don't seem to be taken into account at all. So...I'm skeptical.

I am pretty sure the ICv2 stats deal only with retailer sales.
However, this is where I personally care most. What is available for purchase in a bound book. I detest PDF only releases (I almost always buy both, I like quickly searching through a PDF, but for playing and enjoying the book... I want a book).

[Daeglan]

Originally Posted by Mettius

I am pretty sure the ICv2 stats deal only with retailer sales.
However, this is where I personally care most. What is available for purchase in a bound book. I detest PDF only releases (I almost always buy both, I like quickly searching through a PDF, but for playing and enjoying the book... I want a book).

I was the same way. Then I broke down and got a xoom tablet. Now PDF only does not bother me. I have a duplexing printer so I can print out a few. But as PDF readers get better on tablets this is less necessary.

[Mettius]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

Keeping it in the public eye is something SJG and the community must work on.

Unfortunately, (IMHO) the prime public eye for this hobby is the FLGS.
If PoD will provide a mechanism to get books back on the shelves for those retailers who want them (hello special orders), all the better. This would definitely be a step in the right direction I think.

Rumors of print being dead are greatly exaggerated. Borders going under doesn't mean the industry is dead, any more than American Airlines going bankrupt means the air travel industry is on its last leg. You are definitively right about things being shaken up and changing. In the general print world, we may eventually see the small bookstore reemerging, as the mega operations shut down or move to other targets because the profits aren't high enough. Books may become a niche hobby, just like ours is. Supported by small independents for the smaller market that still wants print.

[Mettius]

Originally Posted by Daeglan

I was the same way. Then I broke down and got a xoom tablet. Now PDF only does not bother me. I have a duplexing printer so I can print out a few. But as PDF readers get better on tablets this is less necessary.

I too have a Xoom. I have the slew of GURPS pdfs, and I love being able to take my entire collection with me when I travel with only the space consumed by one book. But... I disagree that PDFs provide a comparable reading/gaming experience. This may be more of a problem of the devices being too slow to quickly render pages or search a PDF, coupled with the problems inherent in the PDF format. It is very painful to quickly flip back to another page while keeping your current place with your other hand, read a paragraph, then flip back. If you don't know what page number your target is on, it is rough. (And those high glare, glossy screens... ieeee!)

I have the same problem with kindle ebooks. It is not convenient to flip back to reread something, or reference the map on the inside cover, etc.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mettius

Unfortunately, (IMHO) the prime public eye for this hobby is the FLGS.
If PoD will provide a mechanism to get books back on the shelves for those retailers who want them (hello special orders), all the better. This would definitely be a step in the right direction I think.

If you look at what is happening in the general book publishing trade, it's clearly moving more online every year, to the point where the future of the mass market book (as opposed to the coffee table book or the fine art book) is in some doubt. Steve Jackson Games may have moved online a bit early, but any inconveniences that attend this are likely to decrease over time.

I rather regret this, actually: I love print books and don't like e-reader interfaces much, and I don't own an e-reader and am not planning on getting one soon. But I can see which way the market is going.

Bill Stoddard