Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

First thing that comes to mind: The setting Anita Blake lives in. A strong will can push back against most of the tricks, but an object just gets rolled.

I don't know about that setting, but your description points me in directions other than 'IQ-resisted kill spell'. Will-resisted things that work on inanimate objects are significantly less unusual to my mind. But IQ-resisted suggests something different about the power.

If you had something like the D&D Maze spell, in theory that could work really well on inanimate objects and be IQ-resisted but it's not exactly a kill spell...

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Since allies are made by the GM, it's pretty hard for players to build an Ally abusing the principle. If the GM abuses the idea, it's his own fault.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I don't see how it is an abuse. An IQ 0 ally is at a disadvantage compared to even an IQ 1 Ally. The supposed "benefit" of immunity to abilities that only affect sentients isn't worth 100 points.

To be clear, I was referring to the pricing mechanic used by Ally, where the return on the points invested in it goes up in relation to the power level of the game. This leads to an obvious disparity with building things like vehicles as "Allies", compared to making them gadgets. As a force multiplier, sinking points into Allies is often better than spending them on personal improvement.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

By RAW a GURPS Transhuman Space cybershell with Minimal Software has a mentality metatrait worth [-255] points.

? Did I advocate that? It isn't my current thinking, AAR... I'm dithering between meta-trait or just equating it with zero-level.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

To be clear, I was referring to the pricing mechanic used by Ally, where the return on the points invested in it goes up in relation to the power level of the game. This leads to an obvious disparity with building things like vehicles as "Allies", compared to making them gadgets. As a force multiplier, sinking points into Allies is often better than spending them on personal improvement.

That's totally unrelated to whether IQ 0 is a [-200] disadvantage or a zero point feature. Probably should go in another thread, but remember another PC ally is always free.

? Did I advocate that? It isn't my current thinking, AAR... I'm dithering between meta-trait or just equating it with zero-level.

No. You seem to be advocating that it should be a -155 point metatrait as the IQ 0 would be a 0 point feature rather than a disadvantage. SCAR certianly is.

I think you are missing my point with that example. I'm not talking about the metatrait, really. I'm talking about the IQ part of it (it's just that in GURPS Transhuman Space it comes with the metatrait). I'm saying that an "Ally" that is only good as a spare body isn't as generally useful as an Ally with it's own volition. More importantly it's clear in this case that SCAR's theory about Possession isn't true! The whole point of taking an "Ally" cybershell with Minimal Software is so that you can use Possession on it.

[vicky_molokh]

SNAPS ?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

SNAPS ?

Alternate universe SCAR. Move along, nothing to see here.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Alternate universe SCAR. Move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, I'm arguing a point, which is not necesarily my own point of view.
In answer to the original question, I think N/A might be a useful concept, for example: inanimate things which have no Will (which was the starting point for the discussion).
IQ N/A, as used by PK, with respect to his Allies rule, seems a reasonable option.
Reading Kromm's notes in the uFAQ on what zero in each Attribute actually means, I'm not sure there is a need in the general case, for Attribute N/A.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Actually, I'm arguing a point, which is not necesarily my own point of view.

RPK hasn't actually participated in this thread, and you seem to be the clearest advocate of his house rule that has. I'm not sure what NAS's postion on the subject is and everybody else seems to be just talking about resistance rolls.

[Refplace]

As a note regarding the whole Will N/A it occurs to me that Afflticion builds in DF: Psis specify only on creature with a mind (defined as IQ and Will 1+) is listed for those abilities but not a limitation in the writeup.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's totally unrelated to whether IQ 0 is a [-100] disadvantage or a zero point feature. Probably should go in another thread, but remember another PC ally is always free.

Quite right... don't want to derail my own thread. If you or B (or anyone else) wants to talk more about how or if Ally is abusable, I'll be happy to participate in another thread.

No. You seem to be advocating that it should be a -155 point metatrait as the IQ 0 would be a 0 point feature rather than a disadvantage. SCAR certianly is.

I think you are missing my point with that example. I'm not talking about the metatrait, really. I'm talking about the IQ part of it (it's just that in GURPS Transhuman Space it comes with the metatrait). I'm saying that an "Ally" that is only good as a spare body isn't as generally useful as an Ally with it's own volition. More importantly it's clear in this case that SCAR's theory about Possession isn't true! The whole point of taking an "Ally" cybershell with Minimal Software is so that you can use Possession on it.

Actually, I just cut off the quote from your post sooner than I had meant to *embarrassed* What I wanted to quote was

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Look at it this way. By RAW a GURPS Transhuman Space cybershell with Minimal Software has a mentality metatrait worth [-255] points. You'd have it be worth only [-142].

That should make a little more sense in the context of my last post :) IAFMB, so I can't even look at the cybershell templates. When I get home, I'll have to see how the -255 figure comes about.

I'm not sure whether it should be a meta-trait that includes the necessary immunities, or if it should be just a zero-level (for the appropriate return of points) with the immunities treated like a feature... puzzling it over.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

I'm not sure whether it should be a meta-trait that includes the necessary immunities, or if it should be just a zero-level (for the appropriate return of points) with the immunities treated like a feature... puzzling it over.

Why is it worth the same as an ally that can actually do stuff? What "immunities"?