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Old 06-20-2018, 12:52 AM   #31
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

All right, but how is meaningful conflict possible in this story? If you have a character with +8 to reactions, their worst reaction roll is Average, their typical one is Very Good, and half the time they get Excellent, which makes for cultlike devotion, as if they had fallen head over heels in love. The point of telling a story is usually conflict; conflict is what creates drama. Is the whole point of this character just to have them advance from triumph to triumph, acclaimed by great masses of people and disliked by no one? Because that doesn't seem like an interesting campaign to run. It's suitable as a wish-fulfillment daydream, maybe, but those are usually dull for other people to hear about.

And for me, at least, playing in a campaign means sometimes facing challenges I'm not sure I can overcome, and being tense and keyed up. Never having the possibility of that seems like it would get dull.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Because that doesn't seem like an interesting campaign to run. It's suitable as a wish-fulfillment daydream, maybe, but those are usually dull for other people to hear about.
It seems to be a campaign with a party of 700 point normals, which already implies a fair amount of wish fulfilment. It's a common and valid enough campaign mode that the GM seems happy to run, so presumably the challenges in the campaign will suit the characters' power level.
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:34 AM   #33
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Default Re: Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

She only gets +8 against people who she is performing for and who have no reason to distrust her. Just because someone gives me a good show is not going to have me give their opinions any additional weight (the reaction bonus from Born Performer will have me admire their performances, but it does not extend beyond that). As it says on Campaigns, p. 495, 'never substitute random die rolls for reason or logic', and there is no particular logical reason why a stage magician should be treated as anything but a stage magician, especially if they are as unpleasant as the character in question.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:12 AM   #34
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She only gets +8 against people who she is performing for and who have no reason to distrust her. Just because someone gives me a good show is not going to have me give their opinions any additional weight (the reaction bonus from Born Performer will have me admire their performances, but it does not extend beyond that). As it says on Campaigns, p. 495, 'never substitute random die rolls for reason or logic', and there is no particular logical reason why a stage magician should be treated as anything but a stage magician, especially if they are as unpleasant as the character in question.
That would be a more persuasive argument if the OP did not persist in arguing that there is no reason for anyone to hate or mistrust the character.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:31 AM   #35
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Would a billionaire Einstein/Newton level skilled in Artist (Magic) Engineer (Magic equipment) and Professional Skill (Magician) and Talent 4 be close to it?
Not when Wiccans ask her questions about things they've told the Goddess in prayer, and she doesn't know the answers.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:44 AM   #36
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It seems to be a campaign with a party of 700 point normals, which already implies a fair amount of wish fulfilment. It's a common and valid enough campaign mode that the GM seems happy to run, so presumably the challenges in the campaign will suit the characters' power level.
There's a difference between a story that includes wish fulfillment and a story that's nothing but wish fulfillment. Classic soap operas, for example, have characters almost entirely played by people much better looking than average, with the focal characters rarely being merely Attractive. And yet those characters still have conflicts and struggles and unfulfilled love; in fact the stories are almost entirely about the ways in which their wishes are NOT fulfilled.

And I'm not saying that you can't have such a campaign for a character such as the one this thread seems to be about. I'm saying that I don't see what the intended challenges are, or the intended conflicts, and the character description seems to make it difficult to come up with them. So I'd like to see a discussion of this point.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

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And I'm not saying that you can't have such a campaign for a character such as the one this thread seems to be about. I'm saying that I don't see what the intended challenges are, or the intended conflicts, and the character description seems to make it difficult to come up with them. So I'd like to see a discussion of this point.
Indeed, I'm more interested in talking to the GM to get a rough idea of what he has in mind. Are there more characters like the PCs in the setting? Are there equally powerful, nut not nearly as broken, NPCs? Apart from these characters, how does the setting differ from the real world?

Characters don't exist in a vacuum but that's how the OP's character is being presented.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:58 AM   #38
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It's pretty self explanatory: What expenditures, skills and rolls would you require a player to do in order to achieve this kind of titanic feat?
If you have access to it, look up the rules for the use of memetic engineering as well GURPS BOARDROOM AND CURIA. The one set should help with creating organizations and recruiting for it, the other to indicate the ebb and flow of the religion on society- right down to percentages of population being affected. Toss in conflicting religions responding against the new one, and you have a structure for your campaign.

Just a thought
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:24 AM   #39
ericthered
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Starting a religion means creating a group that transmits your ideas. The direct, face to face part of this is Teaching. If you yourself work on setting it up to recruit people indirectly, that's probably Propaganda. If you direct the organization that manages it, that's Administration; perhaps Finance to get donations; perhaps Leadership to inspire your followers to do things in your name. Really, it's all social skills, and you want to look at the GURPS Supplement on organizations to see how you would define a suitable organization and perhaps what you would have to do to create it.
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If you have access to it, look up the rules for the use of memetic engineering as well GURPS BOARDROOM AND CURIA. The one set should help with creating organizations and recruiting for it, the other to indicate the ebb and flow of the religion on society- right down to percentages of population being affected. Toss in conflicting religions responding against the new one, and you have a structure for your campaign.

These are pretty good suggestions. There is a set of rules on this, and while they're a niche part of Gurps, they're actually fairly well supported, boasting multiple books. It helps to see someone actually use them before you try it yourself, of course, just like combat.



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How would you calculate the penalties? According to the range/speed table or to the Action books? Would size consider the number of preachers/priests or the number of followers? Thank you!

I am usually the GM in these things, and I'd totally be winging it, estimating penalties depending on the exact circumstances.



The Invention roll would probably have a difficulty equal to a bonus to the leadership roll, perhaps at -3 per bonus with an additional -2 for making anything at all. So for an +2 idea you must roll against -8.



The core leadership role to build a group devoted to you is somewhere between -6 and -10, depending on opposition levels, effective population base, and what membership requires of its members.


For the rate of growth I'd probably look into the social engineering books for a number.



The "split attention penalty" I'd probably say is a -2.



The "Size" roll probably is -1 per multiple of 10 past 100, but I'd probably want to do more math before committing to that scheme.


But this is just me making up numbers quickly to create a base. None of this is RAW, it just a healthy exercise of rule 0 using the tools I've been given.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:14 AM   #40
hal
 
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Default Re: Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

Adding to ericthered's thoughts...

Page 345-6 have TASK DIFFICULTY modifiers with descriptors added in. Something that is Very Hard to achieve might be classified as either of -6 or -7. On the other hand, something that is easy might qualify under +4 or +5.

One thing you might want to consider where it comes to reaction rolls? Keep a note of the original roll without the modifiers to it. Some people react poorly to people who are more ascetically pleasing to look at, or they might have issues with people who are wealthier. The initial unmodified roll might indicate those who secretly resent their "betters" (whether perceived or social) and either work against the person when not in their company, or actively start working against them in a subtle fashion. Biting comments despite seemingly friendly, or what have you.

As a good rule of thumb? Pick ONLY the best reaction modifier from a single group as the one that truly modifies the reaction of an NPC, while the others help reinforce the public reaction. Thus, someone whose reaction modifier totals might be +8 from different aspects, might only gain a +3 bonus from their best thing, and rolling a 5 on a reaction tabled modified to a +13 for the public reaction, but only an 8 on a private one - gives the GM some latitude to determine how their NPC's personally react.

No GM likes to have to detail "Jealous" as an attribute ahead of time, but if you go with the die rolls guiding you, you can adjust for those "Reaction Monsters" without cheating them of their hard spent character points.
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