Caliph and the Secret

Tom Mazanec · 07-12-2018, 05:32 AM

If Caliph is so advanced, why doesn't it have parachronics? I seem to remember something about wormholes preventing parachronics (though I couldn't find it skimming the article), but then how would we reach Caliph? What would be the implications of Caliph knowing about Homeline and/or Centrum?

starslayer · 07-12-2018, 07:31 AM

1. The only known 'scientific' approaches to parachronics that work are Homeline and Centrum (If this is actually true, or just a function of homelines campaign to take out other researchers who look like they might be getting close to parachronics is left to the GM)
2. It is apparently a 'sideways' research opportunity, like a voluminous ether that turns out to be true, as such it may be less likely to appear on a standard scientific development path.
3. Advanced != 'always has better stuff everywhere', for whatever reason they are retarded in the field of parachronics compared to homeline/centrum

Aside: Are we sure that Caliph does not have parachronics or at least parachronics research? I explored this previously, but basically; Caliph is advanced enough that they have near-instant facial recognition, and restrictive enough that having each and every citzen being monitored by cameras/drone/etc is distinctly likely. As of when Homeline/Centrum first arrived they would KNOW that people, people who don't fit in, who don't understand the place, just materialized out of thin air.

Then as mentioned, they are advanced and inventive, making there own version of parachronics would be a high priority; but they can't go 100% into the research the various fighting factions needs to keep resources for their continued fight with each other, and they can't tip their hand that there is a whole field of research they may have just stumbled into.

Further- if Caliph DOES have parachronics, would it necessarily work in similar ways to homelines. Homeline/centrum work in Q ranges, but what if Caliph figures something out that works in some other range; they might literally never interact on the same offworlds, and Caliph's offworlds may be biased to be more or less 'weird' compared to the ones that homeline/centrum deal with (and if Caliph does have parachronics, but there offworld experiments thus far have landed them on disastrously weird offworlds they might be VERY cautious about expanding the rate at which they are visiting worlds, or conversely if their parachronics are more scientifically biased they would have to go through thousands, perhaps even millions of empty universes before they found one where there was even a planet within range of the portal)

ericthered · 07-12-2018, 07:54 AM

Caliph can't do projectors. This means there is at least some difference between homeline and Caliph in terms of what physics works. Likely enough, projectors working makes researching parachronic travel much easier.

AlexanderHowl · 07-12-2018, 08:47 AM

The real concern is if Caliph stumbles upon the secret to creating paratronic conveyors (granting them access to Q6), perhaps through capturing a lost Centrum or Homeline conveyor. Having a TL11 civilization with conveyors stumbling around the echoes of Q6 would cause problems for both Centrum and Homeline, especially since they could potentially use their conveyors from space.

Imagine what would happen if the progressive Muslim societies of Caliph encountered the stagnant Ottoman Empire of the 1880s in an echo. They would probably use advanced memetic engineering to reform the corrupted bureaucracy, to liberalize the conservative Islamic ideology, and to counter the Turkish nationalism that justified the exploitation and oppression of non-Turks regardless of their religion. After reforming the Ottoman Empire, they would probably seek to free the Islamic nations from domination by the European Great Power and trigger the timeline to shift Quanta.

With a shift of Quanta, you suddenly have an isolated population of TL11 agents with conveyor technology with access to a new Quanta. Since the powers of Caliph would have likely sent substantial numbers of agents to achieve their goals, you could have hundreds of thousands of agents with TL11 technology supporting their own goals. Now, some of them will want to return to Caliph, but some of them will want to explore the other timelines, which means that Homeline and/or Centrum would have to deal with even more TL11 agents in other Quanta (giving the impression that Caliph somehow figured out projectors).

TGLS · 07-12-2018, 01:56 PM

Maybe, but that assumes that the conventional powers discover parachronics first. If The Jamahiriya discovers an ossified Islamic state, they may use it as an example of how Islam is holding them back, perhaps a powerful PR victory.

ronwit · 07-12-2018, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec

If Caliph is so advanced, why doesn't it have parachronics? I seem to remember something about wormholes preventing parachronics (though I couldn't find it skimming the article), but then how would we reach Caliph? What would be the implications of Caliph knowing about Homeline and/or Centrum?

It is an old SF Trope, going back at least to Piper's Paratime that the research either gives you starflight or crosstime travel. Once you have headed down one path the other does not come easy.

ronwit · 07-12-2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The real concern is if Caliph stumbles upon the secret to creating paratronic conveyors (granting them access to Q6), perhaps through capturing a lost Centrum or Homeline conveyor. Having a TL11 civilization with conveyors stumbling around the echoes of Q6 would cause problems for both Centrum and Homeline, especially since they could potentially use their conveyors from space.

If Caliph gets hold of a conveyor and can reverse engineer the theory behind it, using their TL11 Math/physics they might be able to get conveyors and projectors to do things Centrum and Homeline can't do.

AlexanderHowl · 07-12-2018, 09:17 PM

Well, they probably cannot develop projectors, but I agree that they might be able to access Q6 timelines that Homeline and Centrum cannot access because of their relatively primitive computers. I assume both are using C11 quantum megacomputers, but Caliph has C13 quantum megacomputers, meaning that Caliph scientists would be capable of doing parachronic calculations in 1% of the time. That would mean that they could potentially get 700 Q6 coordinates in a few months and only half of them would be known to Centrum of Homeline. While Centrum and Homeline discover 10 new timelines a year, Caliph could discover 20 new timelines a week.

With their superior understanding of mathematics, Caliph could potentially accelerate far beyond Centrum and Homeline in just a couple of years. Even if they just kept to uninhabited but safe timelines, they would have one new Q6 timeline opening up for colonization every week. They would not only colonize the alternate Earths, but they would also colonize the alternate Solar Systems, giving them access to a minimum of one new Psyche 16 every week (assuming they did not just go ahead and mine the ones of the low TL timelines).

After a decade, Caliph would have 500 colonized timelines in Q6 and would probably be exploiting another 500 timelines in Q6 and monitoring another 9,000. If Centrum or Homeline wanted to contain Caliph, they would need to do it within the first few months, before they knowledge spread too far to be contained. With war brewing though, it would be a prime time for a suprise nuclear attack by the rogue nation...

fchase8 · 07-13-2018, 01:21 AM

What if there was a religious objection to the kind of many-words research that would be needed to discover parachronics? Like a belief in determinism, or just basically that Allah created this world, and to postulate on the existence of others would be heresy?

Then Caliph would have never developed parachronics - but the Jamahiriya might...

07-12-2018, 05:32 AM	#1
Tom Mazanec Join Date: Oct 2007	Caliph and the Secret If Caliph is so advanced, why doesn't it have parachronics? I seem to remember something about wormholes preventing parachronics (though I couldn't find it skimming the article), but then how would we reach Caliph? What would be the implications of Caliph knowing about Homeline and/or Centrum?

07-12-2018, 07:31 AM	#2
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: Caliph and the Secret 1. The only known 'scientific' approaches to parachronics that work are Homeline and Centrum (If this is actually true, or just a function of homelines campaign to take out other researchers who look like they might be getting close to parachronics is left to the GM) 2. It is apparently a 'sideways' research opportunity, like a voluminous ether that turns out to be true, as such it may be less likely to appear on a standard scientific development path. 3. Advanced != 'always has better stuff everywhere', for whatever reason they are retarded in the field of parachronics compared to homeline/centrum Aside: Are we sure that Caliph does not have parachronics or at least parachronics research? I explored this previously, but basically; Caliph is advanced enough that they have near-instant facial recognition, and restrictive enough that having each and every citzen being monitored by cameras/drone/etc is distinctly likely. As of when Homeline/Centrum first arrived they would KNOW that people, people who don't fit in, who don't understand the place, just materialized out of thin air. Then as mentioned, they are advanced and inventive, making there own version of parachronics would be a high priority; but they can't go 100% into the research the various fighting factions needs to keep resources for their continued fight with each other, and they can't tip their hand that there is a whole field of research they may have just stumbled into. Further- if Caliph DOES have parachronics, would it necessarily work in similar ways to homelines. Homeline/centrum work in Q ranges, but what if Caliph figures something out that works in some other range; they might literally never interact on the same offworlds, and Caliph's offworlds may be biased to be more or less 'weird' compared to the ones that homeline/centrum deal with (and if Caliph does have parachronics, but there offworld experiments thus far have landed them on disastrously weird offworlds they might be VERY cautious about expanding the rate at which they are visiting worlds, or conversely if their parachronics are more scientifically biased they would have to go through thousands, perhaps even millions of empty universes before they found one where there was even a planet within range of the portal)

07-12-2018, 07:54 AM	#3
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Caliph and the Secret Caliph can't do projectors. This means there is at least some difference between homeline and Caliph in terms of what physics works. Likely enough, projectors working makes researching parachronic travel much easier. __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

07-12-2018, 08:47 AM	#4
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Caliph and the Secret The real concern is if Caliph stumbles upon the secret to creating paratronic conveyors (granting them access to Q6), perhaps through capturing a lost Centrum or Homeline conveyor. Having a TL11 civilization with conveyors stumbling around the echoes of Q6 would cause problems for both Centrum and Homeline, especially since they could potentially use their conveyors from space. Imagine what would happen if the progressive Muslim societies of Caliph encountered the stagnant Ottoman Empire of the 1880s in an echo. They would probably use advanced memetic engineering to reform the corrupted bureaucracy, to liberalize the conservative Islamic ideology, and to counter the Turkish nationalism that justified the exploitation and oppression of non-Turks regardless of their religion. After reforming the Ottoman Empire, they would probably seek to free the Islamic nations from domination by the European Great Power and trigger the timeline to shift Quanta. With a shift of Quanta, you suddenly have an isolated population of TL11 agents with conveyor technology with access to a new Quanta. Since the powers of Caliph would have likely sent substantial numbers of agents to achieve their goals, you could have hundreds of thousands of agents with TL11 technology supporting their own goals. Now, some of them will want to return to Caliph, but some of them will want to explore the other timelines, which means that Homeline and/or Centrum would have to deal with even more TL11 agents in other Quanta (giving the impression that Caliph somehow figured out projectors).

07-12-2018, 01:56 PM	#5
TGLS Join Date: Jan 2014	Re: Caliph and the Secret Maybe, but that assumes that the conventional powers discover parachronics first. If The Jamahiriya discovers an ossified Islamic state, they may use it as an example of how Islam is holding them back, perhaps a powerful PR victory.

07-12-2018, 09:17 PM	#8
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Caliph and the Secret Well, they probably cannot develop projectors, but I agree that they might be able to access Q6 timelines that Homeline and Centrum cannot access because of their relatively primitive computers. I assume both are using C11 quantum megacomputers, but Caliph has C13 quantum megacomputers, meaning that Caliph scientists would be capable of doing parachronic calculations in 1% of the time. That would mean that they could potentially get 700 Q6 coordinates in a few months and only half of them would be known to Centrum of Homeline. While Centrum and Homeline discover 10 new timelines a year, Caliph could discover 20 new timelines a week. With their superior understanding of mathematics, Caliph could potentially accelerate far beyond Centrum and Homeline in just a couple of years. Even if they just kept to uninhabited but safe timelines, they would have one new Q6 timeline opening up for colonization every week. They would not only colonize the alternate Earths, but they would also colonize the alternate Solar Systems, giving them access to a minimum of one new Psyche 16 every week (assuming they did not just go ahead and mine the ones of the low TL timelines). After a decade, Caliph would have 500 colonized timelines in Q6 and would probably be exploiting another 500 timelines in Q6 and monitoring another 9,000. If Centrum or Homeline wanted to contain Caliph, they would need to do it within the first few months, before they knowledge spread too far to be contained. With war brewing though, it would be a prime time for a suprise nuclear attack by the rogue nation...

07-13-2018, 01:21 AM	#9
fchase8 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: New York, NY	Re: Caliph and the Secret What if there was a religious objection to the kind of many-words research that would be needed to discover parachronics? Like a belief in determinism, or just basically that Allah created this world, and to postulate on the existence of others would be heresy? Then Caliph would have never developed parachronics - but the Jamahiriya might...