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Old 05-06-2018, 07:30 PM   #11
Dalillama
 
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
It is a bit curious. Maybe they keep the fine details of their dietary habits away from other races? Although, such a racial Secret could easily turn into an ORH.
Perhaps they're an accepted part of the cultures they inhabit, as with e.g. the ghouls on Ringworld.
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
It is a bit curious. Maybe they keep the fine details of their dietary habits away from other races?
Dude they're named "Corpse Eaters". People know. They just don't care more than than their Monster Stigma is worth. The thing is, eating the remains of sapients in the Dungeon ecology just ain't that remarkable.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
So, for example, a generic tiger would likely have Monster (you would be terrified if you met one at random); a tiger known to be a maneater would have Monster and Odious Personal Habit (that individual tiger seeks out people as prey); but a tigroid species all of whose members preferred to eat people would have Monster and Odious Racial Habit?
ORH (corpse eater) [-5] (eats the your body and your family)
ORH (Man Eater) [-10] (will non maliciously kill you if you get in it way, with out the moral agency of a sentient)
ORH (Eats other sentients) [-15] (treats you like you would treat an animal)

note Carnivores can get Restricted Diet (Fresh Meat) [-10]
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Dude they're named "Corpse Eaters". People know. They just don't care more than than their Monster Stigma is worth. The thing is, eating the remains of sapients in the Dungeon ecology just ain't that remarkable.
Well, yeah, but knowledge of the fact that they're not limited to just eating corpses may not be widespread. If it were, then you'd have reason to question (as Anthony seemed to) why they don't have the ORH as well, since that trait does exist in the context of DF.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Well, yeah, but knowledge of the fact that they're not limited to just eating corpses may not be widespread. If it were, then you'd have reason to question (as Anthony seemed to) why they don't have the ORH as well, since that trait does exist in the context of DF.
Um...what? While I suppose it's possible for them to carve off chunks of a person without killing them first it isn't their standard practice. They just need the flesh and bone of a sapient. It doesn't even have to be fresh. And since they mostly eat orcs...
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

Would monsters really have a Social Stigma among their own kind? Do they mix with Good races enough on a social level to even acquire a Social Stigma? Wouldn't it be just Enemy for someone like Grendel and whatever mooks are identified with for orcs?
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Well, it could certainly be prejudice founded in some other feature of the race, such as Bully.

Oddly enough, corpse-eaters in DF3 have Restricted Diet (Flesh of other sapient beings) but not ORH (eats sapients).
Could be useful for a bit of dissonant world building - at least one culture where being eaten by ghouls is the normal funeral practice ... sort of like a weird form of sky burial.
The ghouls could still be a despised caste since they are "unclean" (like Indian Dalits or Japanese Eta), but no-one freaks out about them eating corpses because it's culturally normal.

Not exactly canon but it might work...
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Would monsters really have a Social Stigma among their own kind?
I'm having trouble tracing this back to the conversation, but Social Stigmas usually don't apply (or at least don't apply full force) among other people in the same category. Within a minority or oppressed population, however, a long standing Social Stigma can end up becoming internalized by some.

E.G. While kids take each other much more seriously than adults do, they still (more or less) take rules passed down by adults very seriously. "Outspoken" or "inappropriate" women have been attacked by other women as much as by men during more restrictive periods in history.

On the other claw, while orcs living in an "orc ghetto" for three generations might feel a little crap about themselves, orcs from a free orc nation may just think that the reaction they get is because non-orcs are horrible.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

To clarify one thing: Neither of these disadvantages affects members of your own race when acquired on a racial basis. The a general rule for traits whose primary (and perhaps only) effect is a reaction penalty – Appearance, Bad Smell, Odious Racial Habit, Reputation, Social Stigma, Supernatural Features, etc. – is that if they are on your racial template, they don't matter among your own kind.

That isn't to say a member of a race can't have low Appearance, or an Odious Personal Habit, Reputation, or Social Stigma, that's unique to them. They can! And if so, this affects reactions from other members of their race.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Question on when to use Social Stigma vs Odious Racial Habit on Monster Races

I'm on the record of finding racial Appearance problematic, mostly[1] because I don't know what to do with something like e.g. a Minotaur (racial Hideous) who is particularly ugly to other Minotaurs. Do they just "upgrade" to Monstrous? What if non Minotaurs don't get the problem?

[1] That, and I'm confused why e.g. Catfolk don't get a Racial appearance penalty for looking like animals, but Minotaurs do; cattle don't get a racial appearance problem so it's not that we hate cows. I can totally see some animals suffering with a racial appearance penalty from Humans - turkey-headed people would have a struggle in human society.
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