[Basic] Arrow in the Eye

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Is there not a further bleeding penalty for 'skull' wounds (I don't have my books with me)?

We are talking about eye wounds, though the rules happen to be the same. And no there is not any added penalty. Most such wounds will have a penalty for severity thanks to the high wounding multiplier.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Either way you still need three in row (or a critical success) to stop bleeding, assuming a HT10 period that's what a 12.5% (plus a little bit for the chance of a crit) chance? Considering you have 50% chance of losing a HP every 30 seconds while your waiting for that to happen, I'd say its pretty nasty! A HT10 person is reaching -1xHP on average in 16 mins, I don't think eyes bleed that much (IIRC they only have pretty small capillaries in them no significant blood vessels).

I can run the simulations at some later point, but basically I think you'll find that unpenalized bleeding tends to stop on its own before causing much injury.

One point of damage to the vitals will often drop a 10HP/10HT person below -HP if not treated, but vitals do have a substantial penalty to bleeding rolls.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

The big thing here I think is the lack of first aid. Where as if you treat the eye as separate, I'd argue that you can use first aid.

How? I don't think slapping a dressing over the eye socket is going to stop the bleeding any more than slapping a dressing over a(ny other) hole in someone's skull would. Maybe you could allow cautery for 1 point eye wounds, I forget exactly what the rules are on that. They'd be in Low Tech or the appropriate companion.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

We are talking about eye wounds,

I agree, only

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

though the rules happen to be the same.

is what we are discussing

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

And no there is not any added penalty. Most such wounds will have a penalty for severity thanks to the high wounding multiplier.

I can run the simulations at some later point, but basically I think you'll find that unpenalized bleeding tends to stop on its own before causing much injury.

Cool (my probability knowledge is rusty, is three consecutive 50% chances just a matter of 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5, and how does it get effected by having a finite number of rolls to do it in)

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

One point of damage to the vitals will often drop a 10HP/10HT person below -HP if not treated, but vitals do have a substantial penalty to bleeding rolls.

How? I don't think slapping a dressing over the eye socket is going to stop the bleeding any more than slapping a dressing over a(ny other) hole in someone's skull would. Maybe you could allow cautery for 1 point eye wounds, I forget exactly what the rules are on that. They'd be in Low Tech or the appropriate companion.

I don't think eye wounds bleed that much, like I said there are only really capillaries in there, so yes I expect the first aid is pack the wound and have pressure stop what little bleeding there is. The stuff behind the eye (i.e the brain is somewhat different, as there's lots of blood vessels in there, subdural haematoma is very dangerous and packing the wound may itself not be a great thing to do.

TBH I think its another reason why treating eyes as x4 skull (but in reality brain) wounds is not correct.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Cool (my probability knowledge is rusty, is three consecutive 50% chances just a matter of 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5, and how does it get effected by having a finite number of rolls to do it in)

To get three successes at 50% in three trials is 0.5^3. To figure out how long a run will go before getting three consecutive successes is really annoying to puzzle out (and mixing in the 'can stop immediately on a critical doesn't make it less so). To the point that I gave up and resorted to simulations before, and that's what I'll turn to again when I have time to dust them off.

The 1/8th chance, though, is the chance that the bleeding will stop before you actually lose any HP, or the chance that after any bleeding check on which you lose HP, you will not lose any more. Except actually that's a little better than 1/8 because critical.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

We are talking about eye wounds, though the rules happen to be the same. And no there is not any added penalty. Most such wounds will have a penalty for severity thanks to the high wounding multiplier.

Any injury to the eye over HP/10 cripples it, and a crippling injury is automatically a Major Wound. So even for such a low-damage eye hit, it'll trigger a stun roll at -10.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Any injury to the eye over HP/10 cripples it, and a crippling injury is automatically a Major Wound. So even for such a low-damage eye hit, it'll trigger a stun roll at -10.

I'm not sure what that has to do with bleeding.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You don't pile up separate injury by hit location, except in special cases which are quite distinctively marked (extreme dismemberment comes to mind).

Getting hit in the eye is the same as getting hit in the Skull except
-Skull DR doesn't apply, but any eye-protecting DR does.
-You probably lose the eye, in accordance with BS399 and BS421.
That said, it isn't defined as getting hit in the brain. It hurts the same way and for the same reason, but it's still an eye hit.

The "Exception: No such limit applies to the eyes!" is necessary because that section has defined eyes as a body part subject to crippling. And stated a damage cap as a general rule for such body parts. Without the exception, being shot in the eye could not cause more than 2 injury, which would be pretty silly.

So, basically, I got it right but no Brains:D
Thank you

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

To get three successes at 50% in three trials is 0.5^3. To figure out how long a run will go before getting three consecutive successes is really annoying to puzzle out (and mixing in the 'can stop immediately on a critical doesn't make it less so). To the point that I gave up and resorted to simulations before, and that's what I'll turn to again when I have time to dust them off.

The 1/8th chance, though, is the chance that the bleeding will stop before you actually lose any HP, or the chance that after any bleeding check on which you lose HP, you will not lose any more. Except actually that's a little better than 1/8 because critical.

If the probability is 50%, it's quite simple. The probability of three consecutive successes is (2^(n-2)-1)/2^n, where n >= 3 is the number of times you try. And by my calculations, is 39.4% probable to occur if you try 9 times. But I was tired when I made them, so my calculations may not be correct.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

If the probability is 50%, it's quite simple. The probability of three consecutive successes is (2^(n-2)-1)/2^n, where n is the number of times you try. And by my calculations, is 39.4% probable to occur if you try 9 times. But I was tired when I made them, so my calculations may not be correct.

I'm quite sure that isn't correct, because the limit for the formula you give as n goes to infinity is 1/4, and the limit for the probability of stopping bleeding should be 1.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm quite sure that isn't correct, because the limit for the formula you give as n goes to infinity is 1/4, and the limit for the probability of stopping bleeding should be 1.

Can you show numbers to refute my formula?

Edit: I already have refuted it. The formula was incorrect. That's what happens when you do math too tired.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Can you show numbers to refute it?

Lets see (2^(n-2)-1)/2^n= [2^(n-2)/2^n]-1/2^n=2^-2-1/2^n
The limit of a constant is a constant and the limit of a difference is the difference:
1/4-lim(n->)1/2^n
As n goes to infinity 1/2^n goes to 0.
=1/4