I enjoy Ogre but the turn order is weird

[gloriousbattle]

I never understood why it was move/shoot rather than shoot/move. THis has some odd effects, like actually making infantry in the defense more vulnerable. An attacking infantry unit can move into range on a dug-in defender (infantry in woods or town), and get that all-important first shot.

Granted, if he doesn't hit, the attacker is in hot water, as now he has to deal with the infantry's enhanced defense, but getting first shot on a dug-in defender seems kinda anti-realistic, IMO.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by gloriousbattle

I never understood why it was move/shoot rather than shoot/move.

Well, for one, it would really futz with GEVs.

Most games from _O_'s era were "move/shoot", with maybe some capacity for "reaction fire" to avoid the infamous "_PanzerBush_ Problem". In fact, I can't really think of any game from that period, or any other period, which uses "shoot/move"; at any rate, there aren't any in my game collection.

Of course, what you should be focusing on is the "I-go/U-go" turn order, and the problems *that* causes.... :)

[hcobb]

What do Grav Armor http://dwarfstar.brainiac.com/ds_gravarmor.html and Battlesuit http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3271/battlesuit have in common?

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And GEV has always had a form of reaction fire.

[gloriousbattle]

Originally Posted by hcobb

What do Grav Armor http://dwarfstar.brainiac.com/ds_gravarmor.html and Battlesuit http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3271/battlesuit have in common?

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And GEV has always had a form of reaction fire.

Rather than asking riddles, O Socrates, why not just make your point? (-;

On a more serious note, maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't know of any reaction fire rules in GEV. What are they, and where can I find them? Were they included in Ogre Miniatures?

Regards

[grimblefig]

I think he is referring to overrun combat.

If Ogre were shoot than move, the Ogre would be at a disadvantage. Since the Ogre player has only one unit to move, it is more important for him to be able to move into attack position and take out as many enemies as he can, before they can react. If he were to move at the end of his turn, the enemies would have an opportunity to get out of range before the Ogre could shoot at them, or at least, it would be the defending player's choice which units to leave in range of the Ogre's guns.

I always thought Battletech had an interesting turn order. You roll for initiative every turn, the loser of the init roll moves first, then the winner moves, then the winner shoots, then the loser shoots.

[gloriousbattle]

Originally Posted by grimblefig

I think he is referring to overrun combat.

If Ogre were shoot than move, the Ogre would be at a disadvantage. Since the Ogre player has only one unit to move, it is more important for him to be able to move into attack position and take out as many enemies as he can, before they can react. If he were to move at the end of his turn, the enemies would have an opportunity to get out of range before the Ogre could shoot at them, or at least, it would be the defending player's choice which units to leave in range of the Ogre's guns.

You are right of course, and Ogre never made any claims to be a super-realistic treatment of future combat, still, GEVs being able to pull into range of infantry, fire, and then pull out of range before the ground pounders can get a shot in is pretty unrealistic.

I suppose that you could justify it with some sort of handwavium stealth tech that makes moving units harder to spot than stationary ones, but that too would be pretty weird.

[hcobb]

Jamming is all over the place in OGRE, but how about this...

At the start of a player's turn they can put Overwatch markers on any units they please. These units do not move or fire this turn, but during the other player(s) turns following after movement and before they fire the owning player can trade in these Overwatch tokens to fire with up to half the normal range of the Overwatching units (round down).

So this does Hvy Tanks (and SuperHvy) very little good, but makes the Missile Tank a little bit more useful. Ogres also seldom overwatch as they don't want to surrender the initiative.

[gloriousbattle]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Jamming is all over the place in OGRE, but how about this...

At the start of a player's turn they can put Overwatch markers on any units they please. These units do not move or fire this turn, but during the other player(s) turns following after movement and before they fire the owning player can trade in these Overwatch tokens to fire with up to half the normal range of the Overwatching units (round down).

So this does Hvy Tanks (and SuperHvy) very little good, but makes the Missile Tank a little bit more useful. Ogres also seldom overwatch as they don't want to surrender the initiative.

Interesting, but I don't see that in the rules. What is the form of overwatch you are talking about? Is it overrun?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by gloriousbattle

Interesting, but I don't see that in the rules. What is the form of overwatch you are talking about? Is it overrun?

He just made it up.

[enpeze]

Originally Posted by hcobb

What do Grav Armor http://dwarfstar.brainiac.com/ds_gravarmor.html and Battlesuit http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3271/battlesuit have in common?

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.

not much, maybe a single "a"?