Clarification about Reeling status

[awesomenessofme1]

It's a little unclear as to the exact effects of the "Reeling" status (i.e. having below 1/3 HP). B380 says that you have your Basic Speed halved, which then reduces your Dodge, but B419 says you have your Dodge halved, which is obviously very different. So which is it?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

It's a little unclear as to the exact effects of the "Reeling" status (i.e. having below 1/3 HP). B380 says that you have your Basic Speed halved, which then reduces your Dodge, but B419 says you have your Dodge halved, which is obviously very different. So which is it?

Answers here.

[awesomenessofme1]

It's a bit weird that they apparently realized the issue all the way back in 2004, and even focused attention on it to fix a different issue by accident, but they have yet to actually correct the fact that it gives two different rules for how things work. I have to say I'm really not a fan of the "halbe current Dodge, no matter what" thing. Your retreats are much worse? The passive benefits you get from having a shield are crippled? I'm fine with your base Dodge (including CR, if relevant) being cut, but extra bonuses? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

It's a bit weird that they apparently realized the issue all the way back in 2004, and even focused attention on it to fix a different issue by accident, but they have yet to actually correct the fact that it gives two different rules for how things work. I have to say I'm really not a fan of the "halbe current Dodge, no matter what" thing. Your retreats are much worse? The passive benefits you get from having a shield are crippled? I'm fine with your base Dodge (including CR, if relevant) being cut, but extra bonuses? Doesn't make sense to me.

You are reeling - you're barely able to stay upright. Your shield hangs at an odd angle and is barely effective and retreating? You struggle to move at all, so retreating is much harder. It makes perfect sense. You are in a lot of trouble and it's time to go AoD and get out of there or try AoA and finish your opponent.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Farmer

You are reeling - you're barely able to stay upright. Your shield hangs at an odd angle and is barely effective and retreating? You struggle to move at all, so retreating is much harder. It makes perfect sense. You are in a lot of trouble and it's time to go AoD and get out of there or try AoA and finish your opponent.

Or rejoice in the fact that you're a highly skilled weaponmaster and your dodge being halved isn't really a problem as long as the mugs fighting you stay in melee.

Of course if they have any brains they'll back away and 'kite' you to death using missile weapons from out of your reach.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Or rejoice in the fact that you're a highly skilled weaponmaster and your dodge being halved isn't really a problem as long as the mugs fighting you stay in melee.

Then again it's kind of weird that you get full Retreat bonuses and the full bonus from your shield if you're Parrying, even if using a skill like Rapier (which gets Dodge's +3 when Retreating). Honestly, it seems like it would just be easiest to say something like "while you are Reeling, you are at half Move and -3 to all Active Defenses." If you really want it to reflect a mobility issue, I guess something like "half Move and -3 to Dodge and any skill penalized by Encumbrance" would work.

[awesomenessofme1]

Half Dodge is also just a pretty crazy penalty in the first place. If you have at least Dodge 10 (which is pretty much the minimum for a well-trained warrior), it's worse than being stunned.

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Then again it's kind of weird that you get full Retreat bonuses and the full bonus from your shield if you're Parrying, even if using a skill like Rapier (which gets Dodge's +3 when Retreating). Honestly, it seems like it would just be easiest to say something like "while you are Reeling, you are at half Move and -3 to all Active Defenses." If you really want it to reflect a mobility issue, I guess something like "half Move and -3 to Dodge and any skill penalized by Encumbrance" would work.

But you're not. As Christopher pointed out, Kromm said in http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...34&postcount=2 that you halve your dodge, whatever that is (i.e. any bonuses and penalties applied for other reasons, then halve it. So you don't get full retreat or shield bonuses - they get halved, too.

And I think that reeling should be worse than stunned. Stunned is a mental effect, reeling is physical.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Farmer

But you're not. As Christopher pointed out, Kromm said in http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...34&postcount=2 that you halve your dodge, whatever that is (i.e. any bonuses and penalties applied for other reasons, then halve it. So you don't get full retreat or shield bonuses - they get halved, too.

I'm saying that, by both RAW and Kromm's clarification, a character who is Parrying still gets the full Retreat bonus and their shield's full DB, even if using a skill like Rapier which relies on mobility and thus gets the same +3 for Retreats as Dodge enjoys (a previous post justified Retreat and DB having reduced effect when Dodging because they would mean stumbling rather than deftly getting out of the way or your shield being at an odd angle as you're too wounded to hold it properly... yet neither of these impact a character who is Parrying). That strikes me as odd. Additionally, I'm suggesting that a straight penalty would be easier, and more readily avoid such edge cases, than using half your score would.

Originally Posted by Farmer

And I think that reeling should be worse than stunned. Stunned is a mental effect, reeling is physical.

If you want it to be worse, a -5 penalty would work. Of course, this assumes you dislike the "half final Dodge score" effect - if you're fine with that, then obviously no "fix" is needed.

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm saying that, by both RAW and Kromm's clarification, a character who is Parrying still gets the full Retreat bonus and their shield's full DB, even if using a skill like Rapier which relies on mobility and thus gets the same +3 for Retreats as Dodge enjoys (a previous post justified Retreat and DB having reduced effect when Dodging because they would mean stumbling rather than deftly getting out of the way or your shield being at an odd angle as you're too wounded to hold it properly... yet neither of these impact a character who is Parrying). That strikes me as odd. Additionally, I'm suggesting that a straight penalty would be easier, and more readily avoid such edge cases, than using half your score would.



If you want it to be worse, a -5 penalty would work. Of course, this assumes you dislike the "half final Dodge score" effect - if you're fine with that, then obviously no "fix" is needed.

I don't think that's what it's saying. Work out your dodge as normal based on whatever bonuses or penalties you want to apply (retreat, acrobatic, etc.) and then halve it, rounding up.