Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

[Talosian]

Egads. The balance issues with that have been tormenting me ever since Kromm clarified that it's legitimate rules-wise (if not mathematically). (Warning: Completely irrelevant-to-this-game rules rambling below. EDIT: I added spoiler tags to reduce clutter.)

Spoiler:  

Extra Attack is [25] per level (and would need the Multi-Strike enhancement for a net [30]), while Extra Arms are [10] per arm. Assuming a character that already has Ambidexterity and maxed DWA, the differences are pretty broken as hell:

The Extra Attack route is [20] more expensive, but has some fringe benefits (at a cursory glance, it looks like DWA probably couldn't use on attack for a feint, for example).

The Extra Arms route effectively fulfills the main purpose of Extra Attack at 1/3 the cost. It requires more weapons, and is limited to weapons the user has DWA for, but it's still wildly unbalanced (and it has all the other benefits of Extra Arms to boot).

Given that 5 points of DWA is required for a human to use both arms without Extra Attack, the brokenness seems to stem mainly from the assumption that species with extra arms could learn to use all of them with the same amount of training. It'd be a bit complex, but requiring another "DWA" technique for each extra arm would at least make some headway in balancing it (it'd still be [15] vs [30], and in dire need of balancing, but it'd be a start). Actually balancing it would be a pretty straightforward matter of locking DWA at "dual," and requiring Extra Attack to accompany Extra Arms (which, after accounting for multi-strike, would make Extra Arms only [5] more expensive, which seems quite reasonable). Although to be fair, in the search for real balance, DWA should probably be removed entirely, given that Extra Attack (Single Skill, -20%) is [20], and DWA accomplishes almost the same thing for a quarter of the cost (with the added benefit of imposing a -1 to defenses when both attacks are aimed at the same foe). Sure Extra Attacks can make feints, but that's a small consolation when it costs four times as much...

-

But as I said, this is just me being buggered about buggy rules, and has no bearing on this game.

[zoncxs]

PM'd my sheet, my guy can go either way. A jedi of hunter. (or anything!)

[Totem]

Some updates have been made to the first two posts regarding rules and setup, taking into account some comments that have been made so far.

Notable changes:

Addition of Rank to the Jedi Knight Template (note the cost has increased).

Rules for setting up armour added.

Rules for Meditation to remove DSP have been added.

Moral Guidance is now counted as a bonus on the Meditation roll to remove DSP rather than on the WILL roll to avoid getting them in the first place.

[Skullcrusher]

Originally Posted by Totem

I didn't want to run this game to be some kind of moral minefield; it is meant to have a serious edge of there being consequences for using the Dark Side (I'm actually being quite lenient here, because in the Star Wars RPGs that I've seen you make a roll with a penalty for your DSP every time you level up and take permanent physical damage of some kind if you fail). If having a moral system to abide by is going to be some kind of major issue for people in the game, then I have to consider that this might be more trouble than it is worth, and since the Light Side/ Dark Side has always been an intrinsic part of Star Wars for me, I can't run the game without it.

As an alternative, I'll offer up my second choice of game:

Genre: Modern, Psionic, Military/ Intelligence
Activities Planned: Military/ Intelligence stuff
Supplement materials: GURPS Basic Set will be the only requirement. GURPS High Tech will be of use for equipment.
Plot: There will be an ongoing plot (or several lines of plot in fact). Given the role that players will be taking on, they will not be expected to keep track of the major plotlines, but situational plot-awareness will be important (decisions will be made based on player/ character understanding of the situation).
Power Level: Players have 100+50 points available. Players will then get the Psionic racial template [430 points], and an additional 30 points in basic training (10 points of which must go into each of Military/ Intelligence and Psionic skills).
Style: This game will be held to a reasonably serious level. While there will be dark and gritty moments for the most part it will be aiming for a realistic level of seriousness; there will be moments of humour as well as dark ones. While players will be endangered this is intended to be ultimately survivable.


Mind Force is based around a project creating psionics, originally for purely military purposes, then later for intelligence/ counter-terrorism. Psionics have to be engineered before they are born, and the government was unwilling to suffer the expenditure and political backlash from raising such children in a restricted training environment, so everyone has lived a normal life until being 'activated' (this includes taking blockers every day until recruitment in order to hide the abilities). The template is fixed; abilities that list a price per level can be improved (these actually start at level 1, but can immediately be bought up under the 430 point template limit), otherwise improvement is intended to be through skills and talents rather than modifying abilities.

The only moral complication here is, basically, that everyone is based on a regular point limit (75-150 for most 'normal' people that you will meet), but people with powers have massive powers on top of that. How you react to it is up to you, and may form a significant part of the plot if you drive it that way.


Psionic racial template:
TK (Telekinesis [5]; Psionic -10%; Fulcrum -30% = [3/ level]) 20 [60]
TK Shield (DR [5]; Force Field +20%; Limited, Physical -20%; Psionic -10%; Requires IQ roll -10%; Environmental -30% = [2.5/ level]) 20 [50]
TK Sense [30]
Bio-Control [60]
Temperature Control ([2]; Fulcrum -30%; Psionic -10%; Requires IQ roll -10% = [1/ level]) [20]
Infravision (Refined +100%) [20]
Electrical Control ([2]; Fulcrum -30%; Psionic -10%; Requires IQ roll -10% = [1/ level]) [20]
Electrical Vision (Detect, Electrical Fields 10; Psionic -10%; Vision Based -10%; Reflexive +40%) [12]
Mind Control (Psionic -10%; Conditioning +50%; Extended Duration x100 +80%; Symbolic +0%) [110]
Empathy (Psionic -10%) [14]

TK Talent 1 [5]
BC Talent 1 [5]
TH Talent 1 [5]
EK Talent 1 [5]
TP Talent 1 [5]

* Fulcrum is an environmental modifier that means that you need to (for instance) steal kinetic energy from a moving object in order to get something else moving, or dump kinetic energy from a moving object into something else to stop it (TK Shield 'borrows' DR from something like a wall to form its shield), or cooling something down in order to increase the temperature elsewhere.

What if we don't want to play a character with force powers? Do we get extra points since force users get an extra 430 for force powers?

[the_matrix_walker]

That's a completely different game he's talking about in the quoted post, where all PC's would have that template.

Jedi are not getting any extra points, and they have to buy a 43 point Jedi Template that doesn't include any ability to use the force, while eating up 20 points of the disadvantage limit.

I've been working on a character... I might skip being a Jedi after all, as I'm not happy with what I'm coming up with. The Jedi code includes so much that there is little room for other disadvantages, and with the expense of Force Sensitivity and 16 Force manipulation skills... It's a really tight budget!

It's one of the issues GURPS has to deal with that if you buy cool powrz, you don't have the points left for decent stats and skills. So you can be a capable person OR a Jedi, but not really both.

[Totem]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

That's a completely different game he's talking about in the quoted post, where all PC's would have that template.

Jedi are not getting any extra points, and they have to buy a 43 point Jedi Template that doesn't include any ability to use the force, while eating up 20 points of the disadvantage limit.

As indicated, the psionic template and associated details are for what I'm offering to run if this game doesn't work out for whatever reason.

[the_matrix_walker]

By the way, on that Psi Template, having five different 5 point talents is paying way too much... You should do a Universal Psi (Like a Cosmic Talent) for 15 points and be done with it.

I'm not familiar with Bio-Control or Electrical Control...

And I would think Vision Based on the Detect would be a bigger discount as it includes limited Arc, and can't detect through solid objects...

What is "Symbolic, +0%" ?

[Skullcrusher]

That's what I get for only skimming the posts.

[Totem]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

By the way, on that Psi Template, having five different 5 point talents is paying way too much... You should do a Universal Psi (Like a Cosmic Talent) for 15 points and be done with it.

I agree here; originally there were going to be a lot more abilities available and each of those would have an associated skill... I've managed to come up with more generic abilities instead now.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'm not familiar with Bio-Control or Electrical Control...

Electrical Control works in the same manner as Temperature Control, with the Fulcrum modifier meaning that you need to take electricity from one place and dump it into another. Level indicates the quantity of power that can be jumped and the rate at which you can get up to that level.

Bio-Control is more complicated. If you read GURPS Powers, in the section relating to the Control advantage, it notes that you cannot take Control (Person) because that would be Mind Control, for which there is already an advantage. This did seem to be a bit short-sighted, and the Bio-Control advantage covers the gap. This requires skin-to-skin contact and basically gives you control over someone's body, and a greater awareness and control over your own. This control does not let you, for instance, directly control muscles or anything like that, but does instead allow control of things like hormone levels, pulse, respiration, etc. The exact effects can be varied from inducing a hyper-regenerative state (Regeneration (1 HP per minute, costs 1 FP per minute)), through dropping someone into a coma, modifying their immune system, and various other options. Think about it as several dozen Afflictions lumped together as Alternative Attacks and with the Skin Contact requirement; I may have underpriced it drastically, but the fact that you need to work for an extended period rather than just having things happen instantly most of the time, does play a part.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

And I would think Vision Based on the Detect would be a bigger discount as it includes limited Arc, and can't detect through solid objects...

Vision based was only intended to convey the limited arc and the way that it was interpreted; I'll check Powers and see if there is a more appropriate modifier available.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

What is "Symbolic, +0%" ?

Symbolic means that it uses the system that I developed in Worlds of Fire: you make a psychology roll to 'shape' what you are sending into a suitable set of symbols and icons for your target, or to interpret what you are getting from them. At the same time their ability to detect and resist what you are doing is based entirely on whether they have the mental machinery to notice it happening: non-telepaths can't see telepathic stuff happening, so can't resist. Combination of the two, makes telepaths very dangerous if they are willing to spend points on learning about how other people think. It does mean though that you need a psychology roll for every question and instruction rather than just rolling to stay inside their head. Again, maybe underpriced, but I'm guessing it comes out at +0%.

[zoncxs]

A few notes on the jedi knight template. If you take it only you can not use the force, So I think force sensitivity 0 [5] needs to be added to that template. like wise the force skills needed. thats another 16pts (assuming you are only putting 1 point in each skill first) added to the template making it cost a bare minimum of 64 points to play a jedi. that leaves you with 86 points to create a character with (+50 from disadvantages). I also think that the nouns "force" and "self" could be dropped, force can be put in with energy and self can go to animal. the verb "communicate can be combined with sense.

Also what are the difficulties for the skills lightsaber, expert skill (lightsaber)?


here is a slightly modded version coming in at 60pts

Jedi Knight (60)
Force Sensitivity 0 [5]
Legal Powers (Jedi; International, covert investigations, relative impunity) [15]
Legal Immunity (strict code of conduct) [5]
Patron (Jedi Order; Extremely Powerful Organisation 25, Sometimes x1) [25]
Rank (Jedi Knight) [10]
Duty (The Force, The Order, The Republic, includes the Jedi Code) [-20]
Moral Guidance 2 (+1/lvl to meditation) [2]

One point in each of the following skills: [18]
Lightsabre
Expert Skill (Lightsabre)*
Law (Republic)
Philosophy (Jedi)
Meditation
Control IQ/VH
Create IQ/VH
Heal IQ/VH
Move IQ/VH
Protect IQ/VH
Sense IQ/VH
Strengthen IQ/VH
Weaken IQ/VH
Animal IQ/VH
Energy IQ/VH
Inanimate IQ/VH
Mind IQ/VH
Plant IQ/VH