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Old 09-29-2004, 10:39 AM   #1
Timbo
 
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Default Real world people and charactors

I have been reading alot of posts and the idea that real world people are 25 to 50 point chactors seems to be very common. I reject this idea totally.
How many 25 point level people do you know. I mean everyone I know exept for a couple of handycapped people would rank in the 100 to 150 point area with no problem at all. The fact is that the banker might be a hunter with gun skill 20 and a dx of 15 and yet that is never taken into account. People are vary alot and are the the sum total of what they do not just their profession. I fact I would say that profession plays the smallest part in skills attained by people. I happen to know someone who has a job as an mechanic/machinist who happens to also bodybuild,game,hunt,shoot,and can pick just about any lock I know of and has many other skills including compter programing and linux networking.
I bring this up because I am thinking of running a aternate worlds game with the players as charators and I am trying to decide how to convert them.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:54 AM   #2
Luther
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo
How many 25 point level people do you know.
Personally? lots and lots.

I think 25-50 (turns out to be 38-75 with disads) is a good guess
for real world people. I statted myself in 4e and I'm about 30-40 pts.

Quote:
I mean everyone I know exept for a couple of handycapped people would rank in the 100 to 150 point area with no problem at all.
I strongly disagree! ;)

Quote:
The fact is that the banker ight be a hunter with gun skill 20 and a dx of 15 and yet that is never taken into account.
IMO DX-15 is the upper end of human limit.
I'm not sure olympic level gymnasts have DX-15...

Even so a DX of 15 means that EVERY skill with training will
start about 14: you are an expert of them all!

Gun-20? Maaaaaaaaan, the most respected marksman would have Gun-16
(GURPS Old West)... a regular, seasoned, soldier will have a Gun (Rifle) skill of 12...

Quote:
I bring this up because I am thinking of running a aternate worlds game with the players as charators and I am trying to decide how to convert them.
Well, if that's the case, simply give them 100-150 pts, and let them make
their characters. Reality would be unfair, and probably some of your
players are 25 pointers, while someone could be a lot more.

Hope this helps
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Last edited by Luther; 09-29-2004 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:57 AM   #3
RPavan
 
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

The thing is, an Attribute above 13 is *noteworthy*, it's something you can tell just by spending a little time with the person (okay, except for HT, that can be pretty invisible except in physical situations, I guess). I never knew anyone intimately that had any attribute above 14, except perhaps for ST, and even then I'm not sure. I had college teachers that might conceivably have IQs above 14, but I didn't knew them well enough to tell. But my guess is that they weren't so omni-competent to qualify. They were moderately trained in a few skills, that is all.

One thing that confuses some gamers is that they equate skill in low-intensity situations to adventuring skills. People that have training in shooting ranges once a week and nothing more are shooting at estationary targets in calm surroundings. One might be tempted to give them a high skill, but let's see how they would fare in a real firefight. Do they really have Guns-15? I bet it's more like Guns-10 with a +5 situational modifier. "I know my city like the back of my hand, I have Area Knowledge-18!" Really, give me the address of the Tunisian embassy, now! You probably have Area Knowledge-8, with a bonus for really easy questions (location of most famous neighbourhoods, etc). High skills are rare, and everyone with a 14 or 15 in a skill will be noteworthy.

25-50 pts seems just fine for normal people that are way above average. Lots of people would have 0 pts, when you consider 40 pts of Disadvantages bringing them down.

Now, if you're doing the players-as-characters game, then I suggest you don't worry about "accuracy" and let the players build "heroic" versions of themselves. "Okay, Mike, if you're saying you're Handsome [12] then you'll be Handsome in my game" even though you're thinking 'no way in hell, but since it's a cinematic alternate Earth...'
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

I think 25-50 pts are OK as average, but the variation is very high. I think I personally know people in a range from about –100 to 150 pt. Much of that variation come from social advantages and disadvantages like wealth, status, dependents etc.
If I remember right, two small children are worth about –100 points as dependents. With some other problems, average attributes and low education a final point level around –100 pts are quit possible.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:16 AM   #5
Sam Baughn
 
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

I was pretty much a zero point character (varying up to ten points either way, depending on my state of mind and various other circumstances at the time) under the third edition rules. I doubt that I will be any better of in fourth edition.

EDIT: Just did the math. Minus 25 points!
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Last edited by Sam Baughn; 09-29-2004 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:18 AM   #6
RPavan
 
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

Heh, I don't think I'd build myself as a character. But now that IQ is more expensive, I think us intellectual *cough* geek *cough* types will have higher totals.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

I think some people are overestimating attributes and skills, and some people are underestimating them.

I had a friend who claimed he was a 125 point character with no disadvantages. Then I asked him how much money he had; he had none. Then I asked him how much he weighed; he was overweight.... When I was done with him, he was done to 75 points and we still disagreed on his stats. He has 12's to 14's all around. (This was back in 3E.)

If you think the world is full of 100 point characters, I think the book disagrees with you. Look at the definition of the point values.

If you don't think people with a skill 15 exist all over, then check the book. I haven't look much at 4th edition in that area, but a 15 is an expert. I think veteren is between 16 and 18. The world is full of experts, so the world is full of 15's. Martial Arts described a 15 as a black belt in a martial art. The world is full of those, too. Maybe not on every corner, but there are plent of them.

I think a 3rd degree blackbelt is around 21 or 22. The world isn't full of those. My Sensei said he trained 8 hours a day for 6 months to qualify for 3rd degree in Shotokan, and failed. He was 2nd degree, so his skill was 18 to 20 by the definition of the books.

Considering the guy at the range vs. the guy in combat. Remember, that the guy in combat is going to have penalties for gunshyness, buck fever, flinch, stress, etc.. Combat is a stressful situation and in a realistic game has inherent penalties. So the guy at the range has a situational modifer and may not be as good as his performance implies, but the guy in combat has situational modifiers too and may not be as bad as his performance implies.

Now, I don't know if it was official, but I've always heard that your Gurps IQ should be around your real world IQ/10. So, I usally score around a 135 on IQ tests, which means my IQ in Gurps terms is 13.5... but I don't think that's official. It does work out, since supposedly the highest Intelligence Quotient score is 200. And people of IQ 140+ are very rare. 180+ are almost unheard of, except for freaky 12 year old doctors and chess masters....

Last edited by lawman; 09-29-2004 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:41 AM   #8
Kromm
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

I'd use these guidelines:

ATTRIBUTES

* Most people have ST, DX, IQ, HT, Will, and Per at 10; a Basic Speed of 5.00; and a Basic Move of 5.

* If an ordinary Joe is stronger, more agile, smarter, healthier, stronger-willed, or more perceptive than average, odds are good that he has an 11 instead of a 10. If his edge is so great that his friends talk about it, he might rate a 13. People in the middle are at 12.

* If an ordinary Joe reacts more quickly than average, he probably has Basic Speed 5.25. If he runs more quickly, he might rate Basic Move 6.

* I would seriously think about rating greater apparent competency using skills, not attributes. A really good hunter probably has all of Guns, Stealth, and Tracking at Attribute+1 or perhaps +2, and that sets him above his pals with only one or two of those skills at Attribute level. He almost certainly doesn't have DX 12 and Per 12!

* If an ordinary Joe is weaker, clumsier, duller, less healthy, weaker-willed, or less perceptive than average, he likely has a 9 instead of a 10. If his lack is so great that his friends talk about it behind his back, he might rate a 7. People in the middle are at 8. Likewise, if he reacts less quickly than average, he might have Basic Speed 4.75. If he can't keep up on the run, he probably has Basic Move 4.

* Don't mistake Incompetence at a skill for low attributes! Every workplace has some poor guy who -- let's face it -- sucks. My money is on him having Incompetence at a needed skill, not DX 7 or IQ 8.

ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES

* Play physical and mental advantages by ear, but note that those that come in levels rarely go past one level for ordinary folks. In general, few ordinary humans have a non-social advantage worth 15 points or more, and most would be lucky to have one worth 5 points. Plenty of people have good-sized lists of 1- and 2-point advantages, though -- an hour less sleep here, slightly better hearing there, etc.

* Play mental disadvantages by ear, too. Those that come in levels rarely go past one level. Those with self-control numbers will mostly be at 15 if the flaw is a "tendency," or 12 if the flaw annoys or worries others. Save 9 for people who need help to live a productive life, and 6 for felons and committed lunatics. Mental disads rarely go past -5 points for productive folks, -10 for absolute eccentrics. Everything else is quirks.

* Social advantages and disadvantages, and physical disadvantages, are big exceptions. They are what they are. Someone really is President, and has Administrative Rank 8. Some poor souls really are Dead Broke. And plenty of people have bad eyesight or are overweight -- and unfortunately, lots of folks are deaf, have MS, etc.

SKILLS

* Most people have their skills at Attribute+0 level. Their job skills, dedicated hobbies, etc. will be at Attribute+2. Few ordinary citizens will go past that level without intensive, military-style training or a lifetime dedication to study. I'd hazard to say most workers hit Attribute+2 and stop learning their job skills thanks to a lack of challenges.

* That said, most people will have Attribute-2 to Attribute level at many odd skills, picked up over their lifespan. You'd be surprised how many people know Morse code, can ride a bike, can shoot a gun, etc. at least well enough to be better than default.

* The "exceptions" who seem very skilled are usually operating at +4 to +5 for routine situations. If you have a good idea of someone's skill -- say, you can measure it on a shooting range or through a classroom test -- subtract 4 or 5 from that score to get their actual "adventure-useful" level.

* Don't mistake "I did this once" for "I have this skill." Doing something once is only a step above seeing someone else do it on TV. At best, it justifies having a default roll. People have defaults because they grew up seeing others do something, watched mass media, and maybe had a hands-on experience once on that trip to Mexico. Less-fortunate souls just don't get a default. Take me: I've shot a couple of times, so I have a Guns default, but I didn't spend the 200 hours on the range needed to justify having Guns skill. I've taken two classical history courses, so I have a History default in that area, but I didn't spend anything like 200 hours on it to justify the skill.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

Well said, well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman
Considering the guy at the range vs. the guy in combat. Remember, that the guy in combat is going to have penalties for gunshyness, buck fever, flinch, stress, etc.. Combat is a stressful situation and in a realistic game has inherent penalties.
Note: those penalties are built-in to GURPS regular combat (plus certain Advantages/Disadvantages affect those characters in combat situations).

In a non-combat situation, the GM is at liberty to award a bonus (p345).
Quote:
Now, I don't know if it was official, but I've always heard that your Gurps IQ should be around your real world IQ/10. So, I usally score around a 135 on IQ tests, which means my IQ in Gurps terms is 13.5... but I don't think that's official. It does work out, since supposedly the highest Intelligence Quotient score is 200. And people of IQ 140+ are very rare. 180+ are almost unheard of, except for freaky 12 year old doctors and chess masters....
I think GURPS/4e pulls in the reins a little bit. I'd say a 180 I.Q. is GURPS/4e IQ 14.

I rated ludicrously high on the I.Q. tests I took. I attribute a large part of that high score being that I fit the demographic profile that the test targets. I have much less respect for standardized I.Q. tests. Besides, GURPS IQ entails a broad spectrum of mental attributes, not just "raw intelligence" (whatever THAT means, *grin*).

Under GURPS/4e, I certainly wouldn't rate myself higher than IQ 14, and I'd be happy to rate myself IQ 12.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:44 AM   #10
Kromm
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Default Re: Real world people and charactors

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPavan
Heh, I don't think I'd build myself as a character. But now that IQ is more expensive, I think us intellectual *cough* geek *cough* types will have higher totals.
I find the tendency of gamers -- myself included! -- to rate their IQ at 13+ amusing. Most geeks have IQ 10, Unfit, and 5 points in five geeky Expert and Hobby Skills. A few really do have IQ 11-12. But claims of IQ 13, 14, 15 . . . those are just bogus. I've met two guys, ever, I'd assign IQ 13 to without knowing, in my heart, that I was being a geek and favoring less-physical, more bookish types over brawny types just because I'm in the former category.
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