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10-16-2014, 07:42 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Typical ST for a war bow?
I'm going through the Deadly Spring spreadsheet, and I'm wondering what a typical ST for a typical war bow would be. I wondering about both for highly trained archers, and for average training archers. Apparently it's possible to produce really good reflex bows, and I'm wondering what ST I should use.
Probably a lower ST one for soldiers only parts of who's training is archery, and higher ST one for troops who're specialized, experience archers? |
10-16-2014, 08:05 PM | #2 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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Reconstructions to actual dimensions for the bows recovered from the sunken vessel Mary Rose showed draw strengths for those (hundreds of) bows varied from about 120-185 lbs. Very strong Mongol horn bows could be 160# draw. I recall most japanese bows were less - 50-100lbs, but I don't have a great source for that in history.
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10-16-2014, 08:30 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Quote:
Common soldiers will have ST of 10 or 11. Elite archers are trickier as Arm ST comes into play but anything less than a virtual PC will not go higher than (probably) a 13, including Arm ST.
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Fred Brackin |
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10-16-2014, 09:16 PM | #4 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Quote:
Yeah, sorry, I forgot to translate. 98# bow is ST 14 128# bow is ST 16 144# bow is ST 17 180# bow is ST 19 Bow draw = 0.5 x ST^2
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10-16-2014, 09:36 PM | #5 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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10-16-2014, 10:30 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Sooo, ST 14 / 98lb draw strength for well-trained soldiers not specializing in archery (although trained it, they're trained in melee combat just as much), and maybe ST16 / 128 lb for well trained archers? Maybe going on ST17 / 144lb?
The bows are drawn past the cheek, so that would (I assume?) lower the high end some. Because I've designed a ST 16 bow with a (realistic) damage of 1d+3, and a ST 17 bow with a (realistic) damage of 2d. Reflex composite bows, limited to European wood. That's a big difference when it comes to the level of armor it can penetrate. |
10-16-2014, 11:27 PM | #7 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
I assume the high ST bows are firing appropriately heavy arrows (0.15 to 0.25 lbs), but yeah, that poundage of bow will do some impressive penetration if mated to a hard forged arrowhead. Note that even your big monster won't punch through 3mm (3 x 2.75 = DR 8.25) of plate assuming armor as good in quality as RHA (which is neither good nor bad as far as armor steel goes). If you want "realistc" penetratio results, you'll want to think of DR as "dice of protection," and 3mm of good steel would be about 2d+1.
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10-17-2014, 12:01 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
One thing I do is allow Archers to leverage their Skill in order to use heavier bows.
I basically allow a roll against Bow skill. Success with MoS x 5% as an increase on Basic lift for calculating Pull. No success means no additional benefit. This means that a good bowmen can draw quicker (in one turn not two for bows that would be otherwise over that particular threshold) and can draw bows heavier than than their ST alone would allow. It is another roll though, so I also allow people to "take 11" which is to assume that rolled 11 and calculate a set bonus from there. e.g a Skill 14 bowman could apply an extra 15% on his BL without bothering to roll. I like this because it makes the point that years of training on bow helped develop the very specific action of drawing a bow (and I also use Strong bow perk and lifting ST) and it fits the whole "to get good archer start with the grand father" meme where years of very specific training we needed to get to point where heavy war bows fired six accurate volleys per minute. I'd probably limit it to archers who have specifically trained to pull heavy war bows. I also like that it means there is more of grey area between yes you can draw that bow as much as you like, and no you can't draw that bow at all. As Bowmen trying to draw a bow requiring several success will be gambling on making a roll by enough each time they draw. (you could get into firing bows at less than full power) Ultimately it's the same theory behind trained ST bonuses (and Trained St would probably be quicker and easier) Oh and I use the realistic bow damage setting in DS Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-17-2014 at 07:59 AM. |
10-17-2014, 06:54 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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Even 10 cp is pretty elite and 20pts or more is a virtual PC. You can have such individuals but you're not very likely to have even a single company of such people. You might see an effective ST 14 with Strongbow and skip the Arm ST.
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Fred Brackin |
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10-17-2014, 07:53 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jeffersonville, Ind.
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
I tend to allow Strongbow and Striking Strength to allow higher ST archers, but mostly for settings as realistic as Dungeon Fantasy. If I wanted to play a game with true realism as a bedrock I'd institute Deadly Spring and maybe even some of the muscle-powered melee weapon limitations that have been batted around.
Ironically, the game I'd pull that with would have non-humans as the standard assumption and draw muscle powered weapons in general from some of the variant "half official damage per ST" rules of thumb that have been batted around. Honestly, though, I'm not sure I'd pull that off simply to make creating characters "by the book" easier. For higher tech levels where muscle power has little meaning is one thing, in games where matching by the book ST to game ST is something else entirely. I have doubts of whether I'd modify ST and damage to make a game focused on the assumptions of Dungeon Fantasy happy. I've batted around combining Dungeon Fantasy and more realistic play styles and listings (like Low Tech) in the past. Sometimes I like the out-of-this-world assumptions on the strength of bows. If anything I'd like a well-trained bowman to threaten a heavily-armored Knight.
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Tags |
archery, bow, deadly spring, draw weight, pyramid 3/33, strongbow |
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