Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-17-2018, 08:58 PM   #11
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Power Ups: Gadgeteering would be very useful. Especially if it had a chapter on advancing tech level or at least local tech level. One of the games I'd like to run is a Robinsonade that replicates the sort of build a small civilization in Mysterious Island or Swiss Family Robinson.
dcarson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2018, 11:05 PM   #12
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Power Ups: Gadgeteering, covering how to handle large machines like starships; inventions made of several subsystems, like Iron Man's suit;
In this I'd say that Gadgeteer is actually an Unusual Background in these cases, at least assuming that the character starts with these things, and upgrades would follow the normal Gadgeteering rules. For making them in play you can either make them a single item for the purposes of Gadgeteering, or multiple separate items that can be combined with an additional Gadgeteering roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
using flavoured gadgeteering for enchanting magic items, psionically imbuing or whatever; for making Gadgets embodying various Advantages (much like Metatronic Gadgets, but expanded);
I fail to see how these aren't covered by the normal rules, pretty sure that Magic says making a new spell (and presumably enchantment) follows the normal invention rules, and I can't imagine that the rules would be any different for psychic based stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
limited forms of Gadgeteering- bio only, etc;
This isn't something major, at most a page of text.

I think the thing that people don't realize about Gadgeteer is that it's limited by the player's imagination (and what the GM is willing to allow), this means that it's probably of limited application unless super-science is allowed, mainly because people run out of stuff to design.
scc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2018, 11:59 PM   #13
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

I agree with the calls for a Power-Ups: Gadgeterring, I ran a Low-Tech game where one of my players wanted to be an inventor, but not a quick gadgeteer, and I ran into a fair number of difficulties. The rules for inventing in the Basic Set are not the easiest to read and it is not altogether clear in what ways they are designed to be modified (for instance, what kinds of penalties should you take if you do not have a sufficiently valuable research lab? The financial investment for non-Quick Gadgeteers is HUGE, especially at lower tech levels). However, supplements like After the End and Monster Hunters have additional rules for inventing, but are setting specific with built-in modifiers that are not completely transparent. It would be great to have a supplement dedicated to Gadgeteering/Inventing at all levels (including without any Gadgeteer advantage) with options, advantages, and rules all in one place. Or maybe it should be devoted to crafting in general with Gadgeteering being a major part?
phayman53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 12:25 AM   #14
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
Power ups: Video-games. Builds and advice specifically written to replicate some video games feels and mechanics such as Diablo, wow, dragon age, super mario and others.
I see this better as Pyramid articles, like the 'Havens and Hells' article in Pyramid 3-89 Alternate Dungeons II that Diablos up standard fantasy.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 12:39 AM   #15
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

One of my players in an upcoming superhero game has the concept of "Tony Stark on a budget", which means Comfortable Wealth at best. So yes, he'll be able to build a miniaturized arc reactor in a cave from a box of scraps :) or more likely a shopping cart at Home Depot or Lowe's, but the high up-front lab costs for his inventing is likely to be far outside of his budget. A Power-Ups: Gadgeteering and Invention would greatly help with this.
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 12:43 AM   #16
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
In this I'd say that Gadgeteer is actually an Unusual Background in these cases, at least assuming that the character starts with these things, and upgrades would follow the normal Gadgeteering rules. For making them in play you can either make them a single item for the purposes of Gadgeteering, or multiple separate items that can be combined with an additional Gadgeteering roll.
I think it's taken for granted that the Gadgeteering rules are for use in play.
I mentioned spaceships not just because they're a collection of different technological systems, but also because of their size. So I'd be interested in rules for scaling inventions- perhaps from nanites up to Dyson spheres, if necessary.
Quote:
I fail to see how these aren't covered by the normal rules, pretty sure that Magic says making a new spell (and presumably enchantment) follows the normal invention rules, and I can't imagine that the rules would be any different for psychic based stuff.
I think it's well established how arbitrary the spell and enchantment rules are in terms of cost and difficulty.
Quote:
This isn't something major, at most a page of text.
It's still a page of text that would be handy. (Besides, how many particular rules take more than a page anyway?)

Quote:
I think the thing that people don't realize about Gadgeteer is that it's limited by the player's imagination (and what the GM is willing to allow), this means that it's probably of limited application unless super-science is allowed, mainly because people run out of stuff to design.
The problem was that Gadgeteering was *only* limited by the player's imagination and what they could get past the GM.
Super-science is also usually a given for Gadgeteers, and there was never any chance of running out of things to design in the games where Gadgeteering was a thing.
The main problem was a version of the netrunner problem- you had to stop for a few months of gametime while the Gadgeteer built something.
__________________
Collaborative Settings:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
And heaps of forum collabs, 30+ and counting!
Daigoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 02:25 AM   #17
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
I think it's taken for granted that the Gadgeteering rules are for use in play.
I mentioned spaceships not just because they're a collection of different technological systems, but also because of their size. So I'd be interested in rules for scaling inventions- perhaps from nanites up to Dyson spheres, if necessary.
I don't think the actual size of whatever the player is building, at least from the perspective of non-consumable components. In simpler terms you need to buy more steel (and other stuff) to build a SM+10 Spaceship then a SM+5 one, but that doesn't effect the difficulty of the skill rolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
I think it's well established how arbitrary the spell and enchantment rules are in terms of cost and difficulty.
That's a problem with Magic, not some way the invention rules are lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
It's still a page of text that would be handy. (Besides, how many particular rules take more than a page anyway?)
It could be a lot smaller, it depends upon how flexible the author wants the rules to be, but a table listing the various specialties discounts, assuming they are different is probably the minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
The problem was that Gadgeteering was *only* limited by the player's imagination and what they could get past the GM.
Super-science is also usually a given for Gadgeteers, and there was never any chance of running out of things to design in the games where Gadgeteering was a thing.
The main problem was a version of the netrunner problem- you had to stop for a few months of gametime while the Gadgeteer built something.
The solution here is either disallow the building of Gadgets that would take so long or have problems crop up for the players while they wait (Unless it's a plot progression Gadget)
scc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 09:47 AM   #18
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
I don't think the actual size of whatever the player is building, at least from the perspective of non-consumable components. In simpler terms you need to buy more steel (and other stuff) to build a SM+10 Spaceship then a SM+5 one, but that doesn't effect the difficulty of the skill rolls.
I'm not sure building a bigger rocket is just a matter of using more stuff- if so, the people at SpaceX would like to know how. But scaling up may not be that difficult for a Gadgeteer. Who knows? That's why some guidelines would be handy.
Quote:
That's a problem with Magic, not some way the invention rules are lacking.
I can't remember details, but it has come up in game where the Enchantment rules were lacking in some way, and creating an advantage- Gadgeteering (Enchantments) seemed like a good solution.

Quote:
The solution here is either disallow the building of Gadgets that would take so long or have problems crop up for the players while they wait (Unless it's a plot progression Gadget)
Sounds like a good chapter for a Gadgeteering book. How to game out the process instead of just rolling a few times- the sudden search for needed parts, the accidental explosion in testing, the escaped mutant grasshoppers, etc.

Adding to the list of books, also already mentioned in other threads- Power-Ups: Disadvantages.
__________________
Collaborative Settings:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
And heaps of forum collabs, 30+ and counting!
Daigoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 09:54 AM   #19
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Adding to the list of books, also already mentioned in other threads- Power-Ups: Disadvantages.
That would be kind of like adding Power-Ups: Advantages. GURPS 4/e has been trying really hard to avoid adding more advantages, disadvantages, or skills; that led to the bloat of Compendium I in 3/e, which made character design even slower, and also to contradictions that had to be resolved. I think it may be better to focus on second-order things. A whole book of new advantages or new disadvantages would be a problem, I think.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 10:48 AM   #20
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: What new Power Ups books do we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That would be kind of like adding Power-Ups: Advantages. GURPS 4/e has been trying really hard to avoid adding more advantages, disadvantages, or skills; that led to the bloat of Compendium I in 3/e, which made character design even slower, and also to contradictions that had to be resolved. I think it may be better to focus on second-order things. A whole book of new advantages or new disadvantages would be a problem, I think.
I was thinking more about new treatments of existing disads, in a kind of vague way. Discussion of Limitations for disads; variations which make them more or less crunchy or "roleplayerly"; variant penalties for "breaking" a disad to what is RAW, and such.

I was following a thought that came up in the Unfazeable thread, but I think I've seen the suggestion come up before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
At the risk of doing more harm than good, I agree with Daigoro. At least, I think I agree. XP A common criticism of GURPS is that sometimes, it makes the simple things too complicated... but this seems to be one of those instances where the rules aren't complicated enough. Daigoro brought up how the rules for Disadvantages can result in a CP penalty for trying to resist a Disadvantage... but at the same time recognize that not everyone embraces their vices with equal vigor. To me, it is a bad compromise between roll-playing and roleplaying, one where neither side wins and everyone loses. XP

Is there someplace in RAW that allows you to mechanically draw a distinction between how the character approaches his, her, or its vice versus how often said character actually succumbs to it when trying to resist? As attempting to resist "too often" is supposed to incur a roleplay penalty, it is a game relevant mechanic, not just flavorful roleplay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
This would be good fodder for a Power-Ups: Disadvantages book.

I think it depends on the disad.
If you take Lecherous, I'd expect the player to be making passes at anything that moves as part of roleplaying their character. The SC roll is for situations where you shouldn't do so- against their arresting officer, chatting up the queen in front of the king, that kind of stuff.

Alcoholism could be either way- you're embracing it or you're battling it. I don't think roleplaying one way or the other should be penalised, as long as the mechanical effects are generally followed. RAW mentions nightly, out-of-game binges and possible annual stat loss, but these seem more optional than the rest of the write-up.


ETA: From the previous incarnation of this topic, a Disads book would cover these:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonAce View Post
Disadvantages would be my choices how to model things like Apserger's Syndrome, Diabetes or any of the myriad of ills than can strike people. More granular versions of things like bad sight or hard of hearing might be welcome as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
"Mundane Disadvantages" (needs a pithy title) sounds like a good slice to theme a book around. People are obviously interested, at least the forumites and such are.

Another I'd like is exploring supernatural flaws - the weaknesses of mythological, horror, and fantastic creatures/people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Gurps Power Ups 12: Characterization or
Gurps Power Ups 12: Character Flaws

Though you may be talking about this like diabetes while I'm thinking of codes of honor, disciplines of faith, secretes, pacifism, and general advice on how to make solid characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Divide it into "Self imposed" disadvantages, which I qualify Secret as (you can just choose to not have a Secret any more, just like you can just choose not to follow your Code of Honor or Vows any more) vs "externally imposed" disadvantages (Duties, Enemies, Social Stigmas, etc where someone else could hypothetically just decide you don't have it) vs "involuntary" disadvantages like diabetes, phobias, and chronic depression?

Divine Curse turns any disad into an externally imposed, supernatural disad, of course.
__________________
Collaborative Settings:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
And heaps of forum collabs, 30+ and counting!

Last edited by Daigoro; 03-21-2018 at 10:59 AM.
Daigoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
power-ups: features

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.