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Old 08-14-2019, 01:57 AM   #1
Ultraviolet
 
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Location: Århus, Denmark
Default [TG] Pulling an ally, who has grappled an enemy, back?

Okay, yet another situation from the last Cliffhangers session, the one with slow zombies.

Adventuress Cassandra Harker - skilled wrestler but average ST - looks out a door, and is grappled by a waiting zombie. She makes a Grabbing Parry; 6 CP

Movie star Maxi von der Beiderbecke decides she is in the way, and grabs the collar of her coat. One handed grab, so only 3 CP.
He yells his intention of pulling her back. Probably in German, so it's really efficient ;)

I can't recall why, but neither Cassandra of the zombie do anything worthwhile.

Maxi then uses Shoving People Around, which is a contest of Trained ST, DX or Grappling skill. He spends his CP on it.
Cassandra knows it's coming, and I ruled it was ok that she did not resist.
I then assume the contest would be versus the zombie's ST? Which is penalized for Cassandra's CP on it.

Maxi failed, so things didn't matter anyway, but the principle is important for us to establish.


Also, could Cassandra have used her own CP to lower the zombie's ST in the contest? I tend to allow this kind of teamwork, and I don't get too worked up about timing, and just let characters switch sequence - as long as they don't do double actions.
Anyway, Cassandra had the highest Basic Speed, so she could just have called a "Wait until Maxi pulls, and then I help".
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: [TG] Pulling an ally, who has grappled an enemy, back?

Out of town, so can’t check my pdf, but some considerations.

First off, if weight is a factor, don’t forget the character must shift the weight of both characters. Regardless of how much Cassandra has penalized the zombie’s ST, Maxi still has to deal with their weight.

As for Cassandra spending CP to penalize the zombie’s defense, I have no problem with this. IIRC, spending CP out of turn to penalize an attack on you is already a thing, this is just an extension of that. Indeed, I’d have little problem with a character spending reactionary CP to penalize a foe’s defense against a strike, even one from someone completely uninvolved in the grapple. That said, unless the two characters working together have Teamwork or similar, the efficiency is probably reduced (requiring one to spend more CP for the same effect, relative to if they were the one in control).
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:23 PM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [TG] Pulling an ally, who has grappled an enemy, back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Out of town, so can’t check my pdf, but some considerations.

First off, if weight is a factor, don’t forget the character must shift the weight of both characters. Regardless of how much Cassandra has penalized the zombie’s ST, Maxi still has to deal with their weight.

As for Cassandra spending CP to penalize the zombie’s defense, I have no problem with this. IIRC, spending CP out of turn to penalize an attack on you is already a thing, this is just an extension of that. Indeed, I’d have little problem with a character spending reactionary CP to penalize a foe’s defense against a strike, even one from someone completely uninvolved in the grapple. That said, unless the two characters working together have Teamwork or similar, the efficiency is probably reduced (requiring one to spend more CP for the same effect, relative to if they were the one in control).
All of this. Anything that can get folks spending CP is, by and large, a good thing so long as the players don't feel it's forced or a tax on fun. The "yes, you absolutely can do this" stuff got into the book. Some of the "the implications of this may depend on playstyle" options got cut, but by and large, spending CP to lower attack penalties, lower defenses, and even 1-1 with increasing damage, to a limit, are all on point.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:08 AM   #4
Ultraviolet
 
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Default Re: [TG] Pulling an ally, who has grappled an enemy, back?

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
All of this. Anything that can get folks spending CP is, by and large, a good thing so long as the players don't feel it's forced or a tax on fun. The "yes, you absolutely can do this" stuff got into the book. Some of the "the implications of this may depend on playstyle" options got cut, but by and large, spending CP to lower attack penalties, lower defenses, and even 1-1 with increasing damage, to a limit, are all on point.
This exact situation still puzzles me to a certain degree, as how to deal with Cassandra being an intermediary in Maxi's pull on the zombie.
Should there be some extra encumberance penalty for Maxi?
Or is it assumed that Cassandra help him just enough that her being in the middle is not a problem?
Should I have allowed 'true teamwork' and let Maxi perform the pull with the com,bined strength of the two? I won't add their ST, nor have them both roll the contest and add the MoS.
But maybe add their combined Basic Lift (based on Trained ST) and calculate back to an effective ST?
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: [TG] Pulling an ally, who has grappled an enemy, back?

About the intermediary thing...

If you are grappling your weapon (your grip puts Control Points on the weapon) and you do Armed Grappling to grapple someone, you carry the weapon somewhere and then bring them along for the ride.

We know that grappled people can be blocked with, so using a "People are Bucklers" approach, maybe you could use people to "Armed Grapple" a zombie?

Except you don't actually have to do the initial grapple, since your weapon (your friend) grapples by itself
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