Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2020, 01:36 PM   #1
Kristoffer
 
Kristoffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Odense, Denmark
Default Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Can you attack Dragon Vitals without a physiology skill? According to Adventurers you need a physiology skill to target vitals from my understanding, except for Slimes and Mundane Humanoids, since there is no Physiology (Mundane) listed in Adventurers, I am wondering if you cannot attack a dragon in the vitals by design, or you can do it without the need for physiology due to it being mundane (even if it isn't humanoid)?
Kristoffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 01:45 PM   #2
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

It worked on Smaug. I'd say go for it!
__________________
"Someone despises me? That is his concern. But I will see to it that I am not guilty of any word or action deserving contempt, Will he hate me? That is his concern. But I will be kind and well-intentioned to all, and ready to show this very person what he is failing to see - not with any criticism or display of tolerance, but with genuine good will..." Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:00 PM   #3
Kristoffer
 
Kristoffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Odense, Denmark
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
It worked on Smaug. I'd say go for it!
Yeah, although it just seems a bit silly that you need to be trained to hit the vitals of say a Dire Wolf, but you know the vitals of a Dragon intuitively.
Kristoffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:19 PM   #4
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Not really, a Dragon is a living thing and has a roughly animalistic outline of limbs and a torso. Vital things are usually kept in the torso, so an untrained (in physiology) adventurer would probably just make a best guess that a Dragon's heart/lungs/kidneys are roughly where they'd also be in a deer, wolf, elephant... and they're right. Generally. It's a good guess, where else would they be really?

I read physiology as being able to get the fine-grained details, like "hit the left limbs, they're less well armored" or identify vitals for things that don't conform to the 'best guess' shot, like the undead amulet, or a demon's binding rune, or Smaug's missing scale (maybe that's not exactly physiology but you get it).

It's definitely a spot to reward players for digging into the world and discovering more about it. Open up a tough monster a bit if players take the time and effort to use physiology on a defeated beast by giving them easier shots, bonus damage, lower DR, etc. in subsequent encounters.
Polkageist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:20 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristoffer View Post
Can you attack Dragon Vitals without a physiology skill? According to Adventurers you need a physiology skill to target vitals from my understanding, except for Slimes and Mundane Humanoids, since there is no Physiology (Mundane) listed in Adventurers, I am wondering if you cannot attack a dragon in the vitals by design, or you can do it without the need for physiology due to it being mundane (even if it isn't humanoid)?
In general I wouldn't require a roll for anything with its vitals located in a normal place; if the intent was to make the vitals unattackable it would have No Vitals.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:22 PM   #6
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
In general I wouldn't require a roll for anything with its vitals located in a normal place; if the intent was to make the vitals unattackable it would have No Vitals.
Aha! A successful physiology roll could unveil a vital point on a monster that otherwise has 'no vitals'
Polkageist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:39 PM   #7
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

According to Monsters,
"A successful roll against a suitable Physiology specialty will reveal where to find the equivalent of the skull, vitals, etc.,
on a creature for which this isn’t obvious – assuming it has such areas!"

GM decision if the vitals location of a dragon are obvious or not.
In Gurps DF:Dragons, they are not obvious, for reference.

If they are not obvious, a suitable physiology roll is required to target them.

I think draconic being are a large enough class to deserve their own speciality : physiology(dragon), but a GM may decide otherwise and put them under Naturalist or physiology(animals) instead. (I would have said faeries myself, but they are indeed mundane.)

Last edited by Celjabba; 09-21-2020 at 02:47 PM.
Celjabba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 02:42 PM   #8
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

As far as I can tell, all the other "Mundane" creatures in Monsters are basically humanoid in shape. Based on the wording of physiology in Adventurers, I could see a dragon counting as a humanoid. I would probably rule, however, that it is an animal for the purposes of physiology. As you mentioned above, if you need a specific skill to strike the vitals on a wolf, tiger, or bear, it makes sense that a dragon would fit into the same general category.
Dalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 03:11 PM   #9
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
As you mentioned above, if you need a specific skill to strike the vitals on a wolf, tiger, or bear, it makes sense that a dragon would fit into the same general category.
I'm pretty sure you don't need a specific skill to strike the vitals on animals. It might be a specific skill to know the exact location of the heart, but the vitals seems to include a lot more than that.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 03:13 PM   #10
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Attacking Vitals on Dragons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
According to Monsters,
"A successful roll against a suitable Physiology specialty will reveal where to find the equivalent of the skull, vitals, etc.,
on a creature for which this isnít obvious Ė assuming it has such areas!"

GM decision if the vitals location of a dragon are obvious or not.
In Gurps DF:Dragons, they are not obvious, for reference.

If they are not obvious, a suitable physiology roll is required to target them.

I think draconic being are a large enough class to deserve their own speciality : physiology(dragon), but a GM may decide otherwise and put them under Naturalist or physiology(animals) instead. (I would have said faeries myself, but they are indeed mundane.)
I'd definitely want to make a meal out of the need to track down weak points and see if an encounter with the dragon can be had where attacks to vitals *don't* work. Probably worth the effort, a dragon's such an iconic opponent that the players will happily engage with the tasks.

Now if it were a mook or mini-boss dragon...

Part of this also looking into if anyone has, or wants to, invest in physiology. I'd not want to unduly penalize players who aren't terribly interested in it and keep the necessity for the skill to a minimum.
Polkageist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.