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Old 05-31-2020, 06:10 PM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default [9] "Requires relevant spellcasting talent to use!" (Magic Items)

This note on page 14 of Magic Items applies to Concussion/Fireball/Lightning and similar missile spells.

Would that refer to needing some level of Magery in traditional GURPS terms?

Pg 13 of DF Spells uses the phrase "spellcasting talent" when describing the "one or" amount of energy you can invest.

While some spells have a fixed Talent requirement (ie "Magery 1" or "Magery 3") it seems like missile spells have sort of a floating talent depending on the amount of energy you want to put in...

So when using a magical item, is the amount of energy that can be invested dependent on the talent of the wielder?

Concussion (S15) and Stone Missile (S28) doesn't mention Magery 1 prereq like Fireball (S30) so I'm not sure how that would apply to Magic Item terms...

I recall in GURPS that a Concussion or Stone Missile item were "mage only" (but I guess you just would only need Magery 0, not Magery 1, to invest 1 energy per turn?) but since this note is absent on MI14 would this mean non-mages could use a concussion-wand (since it doesn't need talent to cast, it doesn't need talent to use the item) but not a fireball wand (because fireball DOES need Magery 1 to cast, so it would need magery 1 to use the item) ?
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:25 PM   #2
LokRobster
 
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Default Re: [9] "Requires relevant spellcasting talent to use!" (Magic Items)

I think it’s referring to the 3 classes of magic, which you have if you’ve got the Advantage that goes with it.
The spell-casting talents are unique for each type if DFRPG:
Druid (Nature’s Strength)
Cleric (Power Investiture or Holy Might)
Wizard (Magery or Bardic Talent)

I don’t recall enough at this moment to sure about requisite levels for operating specific Power levels of wand, (1d fireball or 12d asteroid launcher) but I think that is up to GM or handwaved... I think Magery 0 is required for the ones that don’t specify anything else but are a spell effect.
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Last edited by LokRobster; 05-31-2020 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Forgot holy warriors
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:57 PM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: [9] "Requires relevant spellcasting talent to use!" (Magic Items)

Yeah it's sort of a struggle to understand with items where normally the caster controls the energy/dice if it would be the item-designer or the item-user who would be designating that. That would be a factor for not just missile but also AE stuff.

Also with normal spellcasters you pretty much assume they know the energy costs of a spell (like if it could send them below 1/3 FP and have penalties, or need to burn HP, etc) but when muggles pick up enchanted items, do they necessarily know the FP costs they're committing to putting into the item when they choose to activate it?

If we assume the baseline is that the user can freely designate the strength of effect (AE or damage or amount healed) then what sort of alterations might we make to items where the enchanter fixes the effect at a certain amount, for whatever reason?

Like for example, a wand of Minor Healing which ONLY heals 3d for 3 FP. There might be some enchantment spell I'm overlooking (limiting?) but that would probably make the item COSTLIER to design, even though it limits the utility so maybe there should be an option for making it cheaper similar to Bane?
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Old 07-05-2020, 06:13 AM   #4
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: [9] "Requires relevant spellcasting talent to use!" (Magic Items)

The idea that Magery affects how much energy you can put into a spell did not exist in the previous edition of DFRPG's parent system, where all spells had their own limit, usually three.

I would assume the wands (like scrolls) are generally limited by the Magery of their creator, which in DFRPG isn't generally tracked. Using three as the generic maximum per turn for missile spells should not cause any issue.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:51 AM   #5
Joseph R
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London, U.K.
Default Re: [9] "Requires relevant spellcasting talent to use!" (Magic Items)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Like for example, a wand of Minor Healing which ONLY heals 3d for 3 FP. There might be some enchantment spell I'm overlooking (limiting?) but that would probably make the item COSTLIER to design, even though it limits the utility so maybe there should be an option for making it cheaper similar to Bane?
Don't mean to sidetrack from your main post, however I just want to clarify possible confusion as to Minor Healing, as the spell of that name is not indentical to the potion. The potion of minor healing restores 1d HP. The spell called Minor Healing restores 1 HP per energy point (FP etc) put in by the caster, up to 3 energy/HP, or the level of their spellcasting talent, whichever is higher. Major Healing spell does 2 HP per 1 FP. Healing 1d for 1 FP would be very powerful.

In the case of magic items, I would say it depends. Different item types (casting; charged; etc) could have different rules, and there's no reason the GM can't vary individual item specifics within a certain category, of course. Not all magic items should be entirely formulaic, I feel.

That said, I believe that you specifically looking at Casting Items in this instance. To quote from p.10:

Quote:
Spell Parameters: If the spell has variable parameters – e.g., radius for Area spells, or energy put into Missile or Melee spells – the user determines these at the time of casting.
That chapter doesn't specify an upper limit for the levels of effect that I saw. I could imagine the GM leaving it uncapped for a Casting Item (e.g. those Area spells that aren't limited by talent level), or capped at 6 levels (the normal limit on spellcasting talent), or capping it at the "default" for that particular spell (e.g. 3 for Minor Healing), or treating it just like the normal spell in question and applying varying caps (e.g. capped at 3, or your Power Investiture, whichever is higher).

Ultimately I think it's up to you. My preference is that not all items in any given category be identical, as it adds to the feel that magic isn't an exact science, but that's just me.
Whatever you do decide, it's probably best to note in the item description (especially if like me you do vary the default behaviours from time to time) to avoid confusion or disagreement in future. How talent affects the level of effect, will definitely be something that your players will want to be able to determine with analysis of the item.

Hopefully that has helped :-)
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Last edited by Joseph R; 08-02-2020 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Clarification
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