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Old 04-08-2020, 04:29 AM   #31
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Defend and dodge

I'm probably in a minority, but I've always felt since the first time I played Melee that Attack, Defend, and Dodge were tactics you declared yourself to be engaged in, from the time you picked one until the end of that turn. None of those were just a single instance of anything -- how could they be given 5 seconds? Yes, there's only one "to hit" roll, and one damage roll, but there's no reason to presume those aren't to assess the aggregate of results from multiple sword swipes, stabs, jabs, or axe swings.

Otherwise, two warriors standing in place but only swinging at each other once per turn would be combat in slow motion -- super slow motion.

For me the Attack option in TFT represents a flurry of attempted blows, while Defend is a series of parries, ducks or swerves to avoid those blows landing. By definition Defend and Dodge have to work that way, because they apply to multiple incoming Attacks in the same turn. And if the intent of the rules has always been that Attack and Defend are mirror-image options, and I believe it is, then Attack represents more than one motion as well.

A game with 1 second turns would have to be different, but that's not TFT.

But as to a figure changing actions after announcing Attack because the target then says Defend, that's just scamming the Turn Sequence. A figure (if acting first) with an enemy in each front hex could "shop" for a target that wouldn't Defend by calling Attack on each, changing their mind each time one picks Defend, possibly ending up free to pick another, entirely different option without any regard of the three enemies hurting them that turn. That's clearly not the intent of the game. "You're defending? Ok. And you're defending? Ok. You're defending too? Great, I've tied you all up. Now I'm ignoring you all to throw my axe at the princess you were supposed to be guarding, and none of you can touch me this turn." No, no, a thousand times no.
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Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 04-08-2020 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:38 PM   #32
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Defend and dodge

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
But as to a figure changing actions after announcing Attack because the target then says Defend, that's just scamming the Turn Sequence. A figure (if acting first) with an enemy in each front hex could "shop" for a target that wouldn't Defend by calling Attack on each, changing their mind each time one picks Defend, possibly ending up free to pick another, entirely different option without any regard of the three enemies hurting them that turn. That's clearly not the intent of the game. "You're defending? Ok. And you're defending? Ok. You're defending too? Great, I've tied you all up. Now I'm ignoring you all to throw my axe at the princess you were supposed to be guarding, and none of you can touch me this turn." No, no, a thousand times no.
Exactly. Not to mention Dodge, where everyone who could make a ranged attack get to poll all targets and then change their mind about what to do based on that information. If I'm a wizard and I know a missile spell, can I do that every turn just for extra info, and then cast whatever other spell I want?
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:41 PM   #33
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Defend and dodge

Missile spells don't exist until after you put fatigue into them. Rolling to hit comes after you create the spell.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:46 PM   #34
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Defend and dodge

I was just going for the most hyperbolic example someone might try.
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:04 PM   #35
JustAnotherJarhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Default Re: Defend and dodge

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
I'm probably in a minority, but I've always felt since the first time I played Melee that Attack, Defend, and Dodge were tactics you declared yourself to be engaged in, from the time you picked one until the end of that turn. None of those were just a single instance of anything -- how could they be given 5 seconds? Yes, there's only one "to hit" roll, and one damage roll, but there's no reason to presume those aren't to assess the aggregate of results from multiple sword swipes, stabs, jabs, or axe swings.

Otherwise, two warriors standing in place but only swinging at each other once per turn would be combat in slow motion -- super slow motion.

For me the Attack option in TFT represents a flurry of attempted blows, while Defend is a series of parries, ducks or swerves to avoid those blows landing. By definition Defend and Dodge have to work that way, because they apply to multiple incoming Attacks in the same turn. And if the intent of the rules has always been that Attack and Defend are mirror-image options, and I believe it is, then Attack represents more than one motion as well.

A game with 1 second turns would have to be different, but that's not TFT.

But as to a figure changing actions after announcing Attack because the target then says Defend, that's just scamming the Turn Sequence. A figure (if acting first) with an enemy in each front hex could "shop" for a target that wouldn't Defend by calling Attack on each, changing their mind each time one picks Defend, possibly ending up free to pick another, entirely different option without any regard of the three enemies hurting them that turn. That's clearly not the intent of the game. "You're defending? Ok. And you're defending? Ok. You're defending too? Great, I've tied you all up. Now I'm ignoring you all to throw my axe at the princess you were supposed to be guarding, and none of you can touch me this turn." No, no, a thousand times no.
I wholeheartedly concur
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:59 PM   #36
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Defend and dodge

The actual reason to not waste two points of mana on berserk is that you want to combine Dagger Mastery Defend with Occult blast.

GM: The giant swings his club!
Molly: I'm defending with my master dagger of mastery so that's six dice vs DX -2.
GM: The giant breaks his club!
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Old 04-10-2020, 02:25 AM   #37
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Defend and dodge

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The actual reason to not waste two points of mana on berserk is that you want to combine Dagger Mastery Defend with Occult blast.

GM: The giant swings his club!
Molly: I'm defending with my master dagger of mastery so that's six dice vs DX -2.
GM: The giant breaks his club!
Speaking of the Defend option.... my old group house ruled it into non-existence, replacing it with a Parry option requiring the defender to actively make a DX roll to deflect the incoming weapon with their own. At a huge DX penalty if the parrying weapon just happened to be substantially lighter than the attacking weapon, and an automatic break weapon result for the parrying weapon if the DX roll succeeded in these cases.

Good golly Ms. Molly, I guess we were looking far, far into the future with that one :)
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:01 AM   #38
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Defend and dodge

Yes, Molly does need to carry the only break weapon immunity in the game. Wizards only of course.
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