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Old 12-30-2019, 02:36 PM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default What does "when worn" mean?

Daniel Boom is walking through the dungeon with a ring of Darkness on her finger and a dozen lit grenades in her backpack. She then takes a triple damage crossbow bolt and is dead as a doornail.

Do the grenades go off instantly, or just when the ring is removed from her cold dead hand?
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:07 PM   #2
Skarg
 
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

No, the grenades go off after lighting them when the fuse burns down, unless they are duds (at least 1 in 6 will be).

Darkness is not "fireproof an entire megahex radius per 1 ST for 3 turns, with an IQ 9 spell". If it were, there would not be an IQ 13 spell named Fireproofing, which is a Thrown spell (so more inaccurate), only affecting one subject, which costs 3 to cast and 1 per turn to maintain.

Darkness just suppressed artificial _light_ production. It doesn't stop the fire from burning - it just means the fire's light isn't visible. So there's smoke but no visible light, and I guess this guy thought that meant he could do your tactic, but instead the grenade blows up and sets of a grenade chain reaction.

If the GM actually wants to make Fireproofing (and many types of fire weapons) obsolete with an IQ 9 cheap wide area-effect spell, then they can run it that way and enjoy whatever antics that implies. Bad news for people who like the Fire spell, Fireballs, dragon breath, gunpowder weapons, etc., I guess. But yes it could be amusing what funny molotail and grenade antics you could pull off with it. If you really want that and also care about balance, I'd suggest adding a Suspend Fire spell of some sort for that purpose.

As for the question about "when worn", I'd say it would go out when the wearing figure is actually dead, not just dying. In original TFT, though, that would be when ST drops below 1. In Legacy TFT RAW, that'd be an hour after ST dropped below 0 (though some GMs may rule differently in some cases).
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Which spells and or creatures have infrared vision to spot active invisible flames in Darkness?
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

D&D creatures who hopefully aren't going to import "ifravision" into TFT?
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

The text for Darkness says:

"Extinguishes all artificial lights (including Light spells) within its range."
and
"Torches, lights, etc., come back to life when the spell ends."

"Extinguish" and "come back to life" both seem to imply that it is indeed suppressing fire (not ending it, but temporarily suspending it), rather than merely preventing the transmission of light. The phrasing does invite that argument.

However, since the spell is named "Darkness", one might also argue (and I certainly would, if I were the GM having this argument with a player) that the clear intention of the spell was to target light, not combustion — and that this is just another example of unclear text that needs to be rewritten and clarified in future editions.

On the side, though… infrared light is still "light", and should be affected by Darkness (as long as it's artificial infrared light). And I would define "light" as "any part of the EM spectrum that is perceived by a lifeform through organs that a reasonable person would call Eyes" — which includes UV light, for everybody who can see that, too.

Correction: artificial UV light.

Last edited by FireHorse; 12-30-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Which spells and or creatures have infrared vision to spot active invisible flames in Darkness?
Hopefully only one, just to be fancy. The whole idea of the spell is to be useful. Every creature that gets infravision lessens its impact.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Darkness is extremely useful, especially for an IQ 9 spell.

The "it actially extinguishes all fires in a huge area" interpretation is so powerful that would make the IQ 13 Fireproofing spell almost a joke by comparison.

I think someone who wants magic that will let them keep a dozen "list but not burning at the moment" grenades ready to explode when the spell ends, should research a new Suppress Combustion spell, and if the GM decides it should exist, it should not be as cheap in IQ or ST cost as Darkness.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I think someone who wants magic that will let them keep a dozen "lit but not burning at the moment" grenades ready to explode when the spell ends, should research a new Suppress Combustion spell, and if the GM decides it should exist, it should not be as cheap in IQ or ST cost as Darkness.
I think that spell should be called Delayed Combustion, and it should be bound to the grenade with an object which, when removed, ends the spell and makes the grenade active. The object could be something simple, like, say… a Pin. And it could be built into the grenade at the time of manufacture…
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:06 PM   #9
JimmyPlenty
 
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
The text for Darkness says:

"Extinguishes all artificial lights (including Light spells) within its range."
and
"Torches, lights, etc., come back to life when the spell ends."

"Extinguish" and "come back to life" both seem to imply that it is indeed suppressing fire (not ending it, but temporarily suspending it), rather than merely preventing the transmission of light. The phrasing does invite that argument.

However, since the spell is named "Darkness", one might also argue (and I certainly would, if I were the GM having this argument with a player) that the clear intention of the spell was to target light, not combustion — and that this is just another example of unclear text that needs to be rewritten and clarified in future editions.

On the side, though… infrared light is still "light", and should be affected by Darkness (as long as it's artificial infrared light). And I would define "light" as "any part of the EM spectrum that is perceived by a lifeform through organs that a reasonable person would call Eyes" — which includes UV light, for everybody who can see that, too.

Correction: artificial UV light.
How about this rebuttal for infravision...

Since magic is psychic in nature on Cidri, it could well be that it has nothing to do with actual vision (regular, infrared, or otherwise), but just that the mind cannot see it. That evades all the science of the spell.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: What does "when worn" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty View Post
…it could well be that it has nothing to do with actual vision (regular, infrared, or otherwise), but just that the mind cannot see it. …
That works for me, because it has the same end result — either way, the essence of it is that the light can't be seen.

The pseudo-scientific "prevents the artificial generation of light within the AOE" sort of explanation is simpler though, because your alternative — "prevents the visual processing of artificial light from within the AOE by all observers, no matter the range" — implies a vastly larger actual AOE.
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