Spaceships: "improved" guns?

[martin_rook]

I'm trying to work out some stuff in Spaceships and came across something that seems to need straightening out, though I can't find any mention of it in the Errata.

A note on the RoF Table (pg 58) says "Beam or gun RoF is doubled for 'improved' beam or gun weapons."

However, under Weapon Types on pg 28-29, the "improved" option is only listed under the Beam Weapons heading, and not listed as on option for guns. All the examples or sample ships I can spot with improved weapons only apply the option to beam weapons.

So, can guns also use the "improved" option, or is that note on the chart an error?

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by martin_rook

I'm trying to work out some stuff in Spaceships and came across something that seems to need straightening out, though I can't find any mention of it in the Errata.

A note on the RoF Table (pg 58) says "Beam or gun RoF is doubled for 'improved' beam or gun weapons."

However, under Weapon Types on pg 28-29, the "improved" option is only listed under the Beam Weapons heading, and not listed as on option for guns. All the examples or sample ships I can spot with improved weapons only apply the option to beam weapons.

So, can guns also use the "improved" option, or is that note on the chart an error?

I spotted that too. Improved is not listed as an option for guns.
Then again, I'm not sure it would do any harm to allow it.

[Varyon]

An improved laser is more efficient, so it gets doubled RoF either by using a single weapon with a capacitor that charges twice as fast or by using two weapons that each weigh half as much as the original. As Spaceships assumes 19 seconds of Aim followed by a 1 second attack, I'd say the two weapons (in the same mounting) at half weight each seems the more likely.

For guns, you might be able to have better materials that can withstand the recoil more effectively, allowing you to double up on weapons, but this is a bit more iffy than the efficiency gains beam weapons enjoy. Off hand, I'd say you can manage to have "improved" guns for weapons of 2 TL lower. If I remember the way Spaceships works correctly, you'll be trading accuracy for rate of fire, because guns use TL to determine sAcc.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Varyon

An improved laser is more efficient, so it gets doubled RoF either by using a single weapon with a capacitor that charges twice as fast or by using two weapons that each weigh half as much as the original. As Spaceships assumes 19 seconds of Aim followed by a 1 second attack, I'd say the two weapons (in the same mounting) at half weight each seems the more likely.

For guns, you might be able to have better materials that can withstand the recoil more effectively, allowing you to double up on weapons, but this is a bit more iffy than the efficiency gains beam weapons enjoy. Off hand, I'd say you can manage to have "improved" guns for weapons of 2 TL lower. If I remember the way Spaceships works correctly, you'll be trading accuracy for rate of fire, because guns use TL to determine sAcc.

Gun sAcc is based purely on Calibre, for each of Conventional and EMG.
I don't think you need to really consider mechanically or technically how 'Improved' would work. Especially given the RoF variation by Turn length.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Gun sAcc is based purely on Calibre, for each of Conventional and EMG.

I sit corrected. I don't remember what the minimum TL for conventional guns is, but I'd imagine setting the base at TL7 would probably be the way to do it.

Originally Posted by SCAR

I don't think you need to really consider mechanically or technically how 'Improved' would work. Especially given the RoF variation by Turn length.

Perhaps I am again mistaken, but as I recall RoF is simply multiplied based on multiples of 20 seconds - RoF 1 at 20 seconds is 3 at 1 minute, 30 at 10 minutes, etc.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Of course, this shouldn't increase the available ammo supply, so such guns will only be able to fire for half as long.

That's an important consideration. TL improvements may result in lower propellant weight for conventional weapons, allowing them to carry a bit more ammo, but it's probably not enough to make a serious difference.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Varyon

An improved laser is more efficient, so it gets doubled RoF either by using a single weapon with a capacitor that charges twice as fast or by using two weapons that each weigh half as much as the original. As Spaceships assumes 19 seconds of Aim followed by a 1 second attack, I'd say the two weapons (in the same mounting) at half weight each seems the more likely.

Can you point me to any page reference which explains how 'Improved' Lasers use fast capacitors or two weapons?

Or where it says Spaceships assume 19 seconds of Aim and 1 second of attack?

Even if it was, 18 seconds of Aim and 2 seconds of Attack, or 2x (9 seconds of Aim + 1 second of Attack) would double RoF.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Perhaps I am again mistaken, but as I recall RoF is simply multiplied based on multiples of 20 seconds - RoF 1 at 20 seconds is 3 at 1 minute, 30 at 10 minutes, etc.

And does it seem even remotely 'realistic' for Spaceship Guns to only have an 'effective' RoF of 1 in 20 seconds (even if only firing a 1 second attack burst), and only RoF 3 in a minute, etc?

It's an abstraction, and Improved Guns (Conventional, EMG or Gravitic) seems perfectly reasonable and playable, especially stacked against Improved Beams with unlimited ammo, and the Imp.Guns will be running through their, generally quite limited, ammo supply more quickly.

[vierasmarius]

I'd have no problem allowing Improved versions of Emag and Gravitic guns, since their fire rate is likely limited by their capacitors, same as energy weapons. And since regular guns are already pretty poor compared to the other choices available, I'd allow it for them as well. Of course, this shouldn't increase the available ammo supply, so such guns will only be able to fire for half as long.