Committed Attack - two steps and standing up

[the_matrix_walker]

Kromm and Peter rock! I'm a fan! So if I came off grudge-ey, I want to offer everyone a sincere sorry.

The Big Guys have unambiguously spoken. I'll point it out to the rest of my gaming group (who don't frequent the forums like I do). It will have very little real impact... but when I'm the one running, I'll probably make it a house-rule to allow Giant Steps and Chambara Extra Attack swaps to work as I always have.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Step is simply a unit of distance equal to 1/10 of your Move, rounded up, minimum one yard. You might be accorded it once or rarely twice by your choice of maneuver. You can split up this movement however you wish. There are special cases where changing posture can replace all of this movement:

• p. B368: You can use a step to go from a kneeling to a standing posture (or vice versa) instead of moving. This requires your entire step, no matter how far you could normally move.
• Martial Arts, p. 98:
  • Dive forward to go from standing to kneeling, crawling, or lying prone. This counts as your entire step if making an Attack or Committed Attack.
  • Dive forward to go from kneeling to crawling or lying prone. This takes your entire movement allowance in all cases.
  • Fall backward to go from standing to sitting or lying face-up. This takes your entire movement allowance if you make an All-Out Attack, Attack, or Committed Attack.
  • Fall backward to go from kneeling or sitting to lying face-up. This uses up all of your movement in all cases.

All Committed Attack does is give you twice the usual step distance as your movement allowance. It does not allow you to bypass rules that say "instead of moving" or that use up your entire movement allowance.

I agree that it would be clearer if Committed Attack said that it gave you double your usual step as allowed movement, instead of two steps. The latter leaves itself open to rules-lawyering.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes. For instance, "gives you two steps" and "doubles your step distance" are synonyms to some readers

TBH honest the ambiguity raises questions outside of rules-lawyering. Given GURPS is based on some pretty specific definitions and how those specific definitions interact with each, having "Movement: step or two steps" actually means you can move another yard is pretty ambiguous and cause issues with interpreting how those interactions work out.

The issue arises because GURPS has already establish some pretty specific things that you can or can't do with step. So "step" really doesn't equal 1 yard of movement" in terms of what you can or can't do with each. (see also move points etc).

Now nothing is perfect and reasonable interpretation is alway required, so no biggie.

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Take a PC with Move 1-10 and have him Attack. He can step 1 yard.

Have that same guy do a Committed Attack. He can step 2 yards. 2 yards is equal to 1+1. Therefore, when this guy does a Committed Attack, he's getting +1 yard of movement. And per Kromm's post, you can't do the stand-from-kneeling and then step a yard thing that the OP was asking about. Which I also said was the case.

I'm straining to see the total incompatibility, here.

Because that is a retroactive calculation which is based on setting a Step at 1 yard. And step is isn't set at one yard, in gurps.

For that to work your definition of step would need to be one yard, and those with Mv11-20 would be able to do 2 steps, and if they chose to do committed attack with an step they could do 3 steps. (which would still allow them to stand from kneeling and then move one yard, or two yards).

[Tomsdad]

OK referring back to the OP question to clarify the difference between "you can take a 2nd step" and "you get add +1 yard onto your step"


Chap one (C1) has Mv6 (so step is 1 yard)
Chap two (C2) has Mv12 (so step is 2 yards, we'll assume he always takes full step)


Normal attack from standing

C1 can move 1 yard
C2 can move 2 yards



Committed attack taking the extra movement option from standing

Reading one "you can take a second step".

C1 can move forward 2 yards
C2 can move forward 4 yards

Reading two "you get +1 yard on your step"

C1 can move forward 2 yards
C2 can move forward 3 yards



Committed attack from kneeling (OP's scenario)

Reading one "you can take a second step".

C1 stands and moves forward 1 yard
C2 stands and moves forward 2 yards

Reading two "you get +1 yard on your step"

C1 stands
C2 stands




Just quickly how does the step to stand from kneeling effect who manoeuvres movement options are a fraction of total Mv? Can you only stand from kneeling with manoeuvres which allow a step only, or does it take all of allowed move to stand just as it takes all of allowed step.

Cheers TD

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Erling

Least of all I wished to set off some kind of grudge.

Actually I was hopeful that "two steps" allow stand up & move, as I believe that GURPS penalizes kneeling too much while making it only valid posture for picking up objects, and "Committed" concept could be a good compromise for both movement and readying (if Committed Attack really allowed two action point-like Steps, it would be a good base for homemade Committed Ready and even Committed Move maneuvers).

The wording is really ambiguous, but I didn't want to offend someone. It's kinda one of the reasons for why these forums exist - for discussing issues like this.

You can always use Acrobatic Stand to be you fast draw stand up.

[Erling]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

You can always use Acrobatic Stand to be you fast draw stand up.

As a house rule - yes, since MA doesn't have Acrobatic Stand for kneeling. But I think it's an easy task, so I'd say it should be Acrobatics roll without penalties listed for Acrobatic Stand in MA. Also Acrobatic Stand takes whole step anyway, while I'd like to let character move after standing up. Maybe it should be like "make Acrobatic Stand, go all-out and move as far as you could if you took AoA maneuver while standing".

Currently I simply allow my players to trade 4 movement points during Move, AoA or Move-and-Attack maneuver for standing up from kneeling. As a house rule, of course.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Erling

As a house rule - yes, since MA doesn't have Acrobatic Stand for kneeling. But I think it's an easy task, so I'd say it should be Acrobatics roll without penalties listed for Acrobatic Stand in MA.

Currently I simply allow my players to trade 4 movement points during Move, AoA or Move-and-Attack maneuver for standing up from kneeling. As a house rule, of course.

Not a house rule, have a read of So I dropped my sword... how do I pick it up (in combat)

[Erling]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Not a house rule, have a read of So I dropped my sword... how do I pick it up (in combat)

I guess I've read that thread hundred times. But what exactly states that Acrobatic Stand from kneeling is RAW?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Erling

I guess I've read that thread hundred times. But what exactly states that Acrobatic Stand from kneeling is RAW?

The point where Kromm agrees it can Replace the 2 Two turn Change of Posture (Step to Kneel) + Ready (Step to Stand) to pick up the sword with one turn Commented Ready + Acrobatic-6 (-2 with Acrobatic Stand)

And his declaration that printed Skill uses are not Prescriptive but Descriptive in RAW so just becuse it not explsitly spelnd out doesn't mean it can't be done. And the Whole point of Acrobatic Stand is get you form an ever worse posture than kneeling to Standing that it Obvious that it can do kneeling as well with out having to spell it out.

[Erling]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

The point where Kromm agrees it can Replace the 2 Two turn Change of Posture (Step to Kneel)...

Step to Crawl.

Originally Posted by roguebfl

+ Ready (Step to Stand) to pick up the sword with one turn Commented Ready + Acrobatic-6 (-2 with Acrobatic Stand)

...from crawling posture.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Erling

Step to Crawl.
...from crawling posture.

Crawling is Worse than kneelling skill NEVER limit you from doing an easier task than their normal task.