Lecherousness & Bisexuality

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Lecherousness is a -15 point disadvantage. It's meant to be serious. It's in the company of disadvantages like:
Alcoholism
Cannot Speak
Combat Paralysis
Sadism
Severe Delusions ("I am Napoleon!")
Social Stigma: Monster

Of course, that [-15] points can be modified down to [-8] by higher self control, which may not be a good idea - considering how frequently it can be called for, a 15 is not that much protection.

Modifying it up to [-30] is probably okay provided you never want to actually have free will.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Of course, that [-15] points can be modified down to [-8] by higher self control, which may not be a good idea - considering how frequently it can be called for, a 15 is not that much protection.

Modifying it up to [-30] is probably okay provided you never want to actually have free will.

Yes, but it has the escape hatch of roll at most once per day, unless target is very beautiful (and you aren't making that roll anyway). On the other hand, given the possible consequences listed, the character being crass makes more sense (from the four, the first two were Jail and Physical Retribution).

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Of course, that [-15] points can be modified down to [-8] by higher self control, which may not be a good idea - considering how frequently it can be called for, a 15 is not that much protection.

Modifying it up to [-30] is probably okay provided you never want to actually have free will.

[-7], not [-8].

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Another issue I see is with people thinking that you only have to make a pass if you fail the roll. Your character should be pursuing people constantly. Only making the roll when they need to behave. James is always flirting. Always probing. Even when he's not doing it in direct pursuit of someone, he's always "on." He only tries to resist when, as he puts it, "it's time to put on my monkey suit and entertain the Chaos Gods."

I agree with that. That's how all disadvantages with self-control rolls should be handled.

[tshiggins]

If they take Lecherousness as a disadvantage for their characters, I always require my players to make rolls to avoid behavior that might get them arrested for sexual assault ("Grab 'em by the...."); fired and then sued for sexual harassment in the workplace; and/or involved in at least one costly divorce for infidelity.

A.15-point disadvantage is supposed to be a serious problem.

The "always thinking about sex" disadvantage common amongst most teenagers is a one point quirk.

[dcarson]

I'm willing to have a PC that is trying to overcome a Disadvantage roll often to avoid it but they then need to play the avoiding. So with Lecherousness they need to do things like avoid situations where they could have a problem so they don't attend parties with lots of attractive (wo)men which causes problems for the character just different ones. A Disad that doesn't cause problems is not worth points.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by dcarson

I'm willing to have a PC that is trying to overcome a Disadvantage roll often to avoid it but they then need to play the avoiding. So with Lecherousness they need to do things like avoid situations where they could have a problem so they don't attend parties with lots of attractive (wo)men which causes problems for the character just different ones. A Disad that doesn't cause problems is not worth points.

Well, yes. But what I'm talking about is not avoiding pursuing a desired person; it's avoiding tactics of pursuit that can be expected to fail, and instead using tactics that have a better chance of success.

For example, George Wickham clearly was at least something of a lecher, in that Austen describes him as having gone after Georgianna Darcy, Elizabeth Bennett, and then Lydia Bennett. But he did not grab Lizzie by any unseemly body part, or immediately ask her to go to bed with him, or use crude language; rather, he told her about Fitzwillliam Darcy's (alleged) injustice to him, knowing that Lizzie had taken a dislike to Darcy and would be glad to hear (alleged) dirt about him. And that actually did attract Lizzie to him for a while, so it wasn't an inherent bad strategy. On the other hand, he does run off to London with Lydia as soon as she shows an interest, so playing the long game is a tactical choice, not a result of inhibitions.

It seems to me that Lecherousness by itself can plausibly produce that sort of behavior. If combined with Impulsiveness, it leads to jumping right away like a cat at a laser dot; if with Overconfidence, at going for targets who are out of your league; if with Bestial, at the direct use of physical force.

[Mark Skarr]

(Posting from phone-sorry for errors)

Lecherousness is not I make bad decisions and grab people by their naughty-bits. That is another disadvantage also triggering. Probably impulsive or overconfidence, depending on the rest of the personality.

Lecherous characters, aside any other disadvantage, won't do things typified by other disadvantages. Having an IQ of 14 and lecherousness does not mean you have to go the shortest, most-direct route, if you know taking some time significantly increases your chances. Gluttony + Lecherousness is 9 1/2 Weeks (kids, ask your folks).

A lecherous boss, taking advantage of his secretary, is likely having a reaction to overconfidence or a delusion. Pinching people in public is probably an OPH also triggering. But could also be a reaction to overconfidence, impulsive or another delusion.

Being bisexual is just another character trait interacting with lecherousness. It doesn't change either of them, they just work together.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

[...]

The "always thinking about sex" disadvantage common amongst most teenagers is a one point quirk.

The [insert Disadvantage] that can actually be found among common folk is [negligible point value] results in a perverse incentive: specifically, players are either discouraged from using the personality characterisation tools the system provides (since few PCs maintaining verisimilitude would have anything other than the 5 quirks), or encouraged towards playing caricatures. Neither seems to be a sort of gameplay I want a system to produce.

Now, I'm speaking for myself, but I don't think this sentiment is unique to me, even if it may be at odds with the RAW and/or the author's sentiment.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, yes. But what I'm talking about is not avoiding pursuing a desired person; it's avoiding tactics of pursuit that can be expected to fail, and instead using tactics that have a better chance of success.

For example, George Wickham clearly was at least something of a lecher, in that Austen describes him as having gone after Georgianna Darcy, Elizabeth Bennett, and then Lydia Bennett. But he did not grab Lizzie by any unseemly body part, or immediately ask her to go to bed with him, or use crude language; rather, he told her about Fitzwillliam Darcy's (alleged) injustice to him, knowing that Lizzie had taken a dislike to Darcy and would be glad to hear (alleged) dirt about him. And that actually did attract Lizzie to him for a while, so it wasn't an inherent bad strategy. On the other hand, he does run off to London with Lydia as soon as she shows an interest, so playing the long game is a tactical choice, not a result of inhibitions.

It seems to me that Lecherousness by itself can plausibly produce that sort of behavior. If combined with Impulsiveness, it leads to jumping right away like a cat at a laser dot; if with Overconfidence, at going for targets who are out of your league; if with Bestial, at the direct use of physical force.

So what happens if you're playing a game where your PC may not wind up hanging around the latest person they met for months? Do they get to just make a few innocuous opening moves and then 'break off' the pursuit that never really happened in the first place when they don't meet its object again? A great way to never actually be subject to a Disadvantage, that.

If Wickham had Lecherous, it would have certainly triggered a lot more than three times over the timeline of the book. What does he do when the target is some stranger encountered in passing, potentially from well outside his proper social sphere?