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Old 12-31-2019, 01:17 PM   #11
ULFGARD
 
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Depending on the culture, bisexuality might be a quirk.
Or a Social Stigma. In practice, for settings in which homosexuality, etc., is not stigmatized, I have always allowed various sexualities to be Quirks, and, for a Jack Harkness, I'd personally allow Bisexual along side Xenophilia and Lecherousness.
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by Kfireblade View Post
Should a Bi character with Lecherousness get more points for the disadvantage? It dose seem it would be a bigger disadvantage for them.
I think that is fair, since situations which could provoke the disadvantage are twice as common.

Another variant is that mysteriously, many people chronically hit on people smaller and lower in status than them (Isaac Asimov didn't grope his editors and publishers, he groped their secretaries and random convention-goers). Its almost as if their compulsion vanishes when the target could seriously damage their career, reputation, or body. That kind of Lecherousness is probably a Limited form.

In patriarchal societies, men who aggressively hit on men will get in more trouble than men who aggressively hit on women, because their targets don't have a Social Stigma.
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Last edited by Polydamas; 12-31-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I think that is fair, since situations which could provoke the disadvantage are twice as common.
That logic means that all phobias should be worth more in a horror game, because they're more likely to show up.

The character is already getting points back for Lecherousness, and, if relevant, any quirk/social stigma/xenophilia. Those are all the points they need to get back. Increasing the value of Lecherousness is double-dipping.

[bad sexual joke redacted for good taste]

The argument should be made that, depending on a character's appearance, and the relative appearance between the two characters, the value for Lecherousness should be modified.

While it is easier for a character to "succeed" with lecherousness the more attractive they are, it is also more likely to result in story/plot disruption, as well as open them up to more serious repercussions in the long run.

However, the same could be said for less attractive characters as well. As the objects of their attention may be more likely to react unfavorably, potentially involving security, the police or their own, private protection firm. A drink in the face is the nicest reaction they can generally expect.

An average person, hitting on a beautiful person is more likely to get laughed at and a short lecture on hitting above their paygrade. But, a handsome person hitting on another handsome person is going to be more successful, providing the proclivities of the object of their focus are in alignment.

However, an unattractive, or ugly person hitting on the same, beautiful person is much more likely to get a glass thrown in their face, or a cry for help to security and the declaration of "harassment." Unless that person has an agenda.

As a hetrosexual male, I will say that Captain Jack is a gorgeous man. I am in love with John Barrowman. And, Jack being handsome makes him being lecherous much, much easier. The number of his attempts doesn't enter into it.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
In patriarchal societies, men who aggressively hit on men will get in more trouble than men who aggressively hit on women, because their targets don't have a Social Stigma.
In this case the character in question is a woman, although that probably comes with its own set of problems.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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That logic means that all phobias should be worth more in a horror game, because they're more likely to show up.
Some phobias are explicitly more expensive in different settings where the frequency of their trigger is more or less common. Even the ones that don't list changes in price should reasonably change price depending on the setting; Thalassophobia should not be the same price in a Waterworld campaign as it is for a game stuck on Arrakis.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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In this case the character in question is a woman, although that probably comes with its own set of problems.
In a general sense, she's more likely to be successful. But, Lecherousness doesn't differentiate.

Crimson Fox, being Lecherous would be much more problematic than Uncle Carl.
(Links to character pictures.)

She would also be much more likely to be successful in finding a playmate. But, the value is the same for both characters.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
Some phobias are explicitly more expensive in different settings where the frequency of their trigger is more or less common. Even the ones that don't list changes in price should reasonably change price depending on the setting; Thalassophobia should not be the same price in a Waterworld campaign as it is for a game stuck on Arrakis.
A GM should not allow Thalassophobia in either case. In the first it would make for an unplayable character, in the second it would never come up. A disadvantage that does not come up is not worth any points.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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That logic means that all phobias should be worth more in a horror game, because they're more likely to show up.
You are conflating two different things. GURPS treats point cost and G$ values as stable across campaigns, even though as you say some things are more common in a space opera on an isolated outpost than in a wainscot fantasy in a dense city.

But GURPS also has a principle that if two characters have a disadvantage, and one is more likely to have it triggered, that one should get more points for it. Imagine two characters are on the same adventure, one with Lecherousness (12) and "attracted to men" [0] and the other with Lecherousness (12) and "attracted to men and women" [0]. The second character has a disadvantage which will come up more often in the same adventure, so it should be worth more points.

(Similarly, an asexual character shouldn't be allowed Lecherousness at all, according to the principle on p. B120).

A character who has spent points on influence skills and reaction bonuses (including but by no ways limited to appearance!) is more likely to get a polite response, but that is why they are worth more points than someone without those traits. Its no different than buying Filch and a Contact on the police force to limit the damage from your character's Kleptomania.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
You are conflating two different things. GURPS treats point cost and G$ values as stable across campaigns, even though as you say some things are more common in a space opera on an isolated outpost than in a wainscot fantasy in a dense city.
I am not. See below. You are assigning extra value to something that does not have it.

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
But GURPS also has a principle that if two characters have a disadvantage, and one is more likely to have it triggered, that one should get more points for it. Imagine two characters are on the same adventure, one with Lecherousness (12) and "attracted to men" [0] and the other with Lecherousness (12) and "attracted to men and women" [0]. The second character has a disadvantage which will come up more often in the same adventure, so it should be worth more points.
A fear of ghosts should be worth more in a game where ghosts are going to come up. And if it is going to come up often, it should be worth more points. Even in games where there is no supernatural element, people would still believe in ghosts. If they do exist, then the disadvantage should be worth more the higher the likelihood they are to encounter them.

Brontophobia should be worth more points in a higher TL setting than a lower as the opportunity to encounter loud noises increases. If the character is in a party that uses guns it should be worth even more points.

Just because their options are increased does not mean that their problems have increased. Simply their options. It is a 0-point feature that they are attracted to both men and women, so it does not increase the value of Lecherousness. As it is not inherent to Lecherousness. The value increase would be covered by the trait increasing their scope. If there is no increase, there is no increase to Lecherousness.

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
(Similarly, an asexual character shouldn't be allowed Lecherousness at all, according to the principle on p. B120).
True enough.

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
A character who has spent points on influence skills and reaction bonuses (including but by no ways limited to appearance!) is more likely to get a polite response, but that is why they are worth more points than someone without those traits. Its no different than buying Filch and a Contact on the police force to limit the damage from your character's Kleptomania.
However, Filch makes you more likely to be successful, and not suffer from any repercussions, and the contact is likely going to be strained by you doing this. And neither of those are inherent to Kleptomania.

[ETA]
The logic you are using is that one must look at the entire character to determine the value of their individual disadvantages.

Crimson Fox, with her Appearance, Allure Talent, Charisma and, Voice advantages, coupled with her astronomical social skills and multi-sexuality, should have Lecherousness as an advantage, as she is going to be much more successful in using it as an instigation to manipulation.

Uncle Carl, on the other hand, with his negative Appearance, intolerances and abysmal social skills is going to suffer numerous failures for having Lecherousness, and, since it will be more problematic for him, he should get more points for it.

However, when trying to look at the big picture, you're actually missing the big picture. Both characters now have gold mines for role-play potential. Having an increased target demographic simply increases the opportunitites for role-playing.

Lecherousness is a Role-Playing disadvantage, not just a disadvantage. If you're not interested in role-playing those interactions, you probably shouldn't be taking the disadvantage.
[/eta]

Last edited by Mark Skarr; 12-31-2019 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Added a thought
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

I've had bisexuality as a Quirk for a long time in my games, not as it applies to Lecherousness, but as it makes you vulnerable to the Sex Appeal skill from twice as many characters. As an enhancement to Lecherousness, if I did allow it it would be worth no more than +20% (reverse "Accessibility, About 50%, -20%" to "Accessibility, Twice as often, +20%").

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Old 12-31-2019, 06:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lecherousness & Bisexuality

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I think that is fair, since situations which could provoke the disadvantage are twice as common.
So if I move to a city, where I encounter orders of magnitude more people who might provoke the disadvantage, I should get *vastly* more points for it? I think it's pretty clear to everybody that one is no, so a simple doubling should be an easy call.

I'll admit that a great many GURPS disadvantages have a problem where a sufficiently legalistic reading of the rules is either out of balance with the point costs or completely unplayable, and Lecherous is no exception (though which of the two depends on *which* insane reading you care to adopt for "romance" "brief" "appealing" or "pass"), but even in insane readings don't seem to support the problem being much more severe (or trivial) just because you know more (or fewer) people.
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