Fast-draw (arrow) ....without the roll every turn?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

you, along with many other people, seem to be missing the point. the video is about the technique he uses to shoot the arrow, not what bow he uses. that technique took him a few years to get right, if you were to teach a 10 year old how to do this and train them with a stronger bow, you will get the same results.

its not about the bow or the person, its about the technique, Lars proves that it is possible to release more arrows than normal when you have them all in hand.

Actually you're the one missing the point it does matter the bow, because as the strength of the bow becomes a better match to your own strength. the draw slows down.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Aneirin

It is in a pyamrid article I believe. power ups 2?

It originates in GURPS Supers, where it's used, for example, to let Spider-man or Tarzan swing from place to place without having to make a Per roll each time they need a new tree or building to swing from.

I might actually allow it to be used with Fast-Draw (Arrow) without an extra perk. It's not directly a combat roll, but a secondary roll than enables combat rolls. So I don't see it as directly abusive. On the other hand, I could see a GM wanting to have rapid fire be risky and thus not allowing it.

Bill Stoddard

[Anthony]

There's a part of me that things certain skills should just not have an automatic failure chance; if you have a modified skill of 18, you never fail.

[whswhs]

The main point about NNR is that it's intended to eliminate rolls that (a) will hardly ever fail and (b) don't make a good dramatic point when they do fail. Having Odysseus, Robin Hood, or Legolas drop an arrow, or spill an entire quiver of arrows, or having Tarzan not spot the next vine to swing from and fall to the jungle floor, delaying his rescue of Jane while he regains consciousness, is the sort of thing that many people would feel undercuts the character's heroic stature and is not an interesting reason for failure.

But (b) is always a GM judgment call. If you think that a heroic archer ought to have a chance of dropping an arrow when he's shooting with extreme speed, then you should disallow NNR for Fast-Draw (Arrow).

The kinds of rolls where you should always disallow NNR are those where making the roll is the dramatic focus of that scene or that action. If you're trying to fire your missile down a narrow exhaust shaft, you shouldn't be able to say, "My character used to bullseye targets that size back home!" and get an automatic success—because hitting that target is the dramatic focus of that part of the story.

(All of which says that if you are a hardcore simulationist with no use for dramatic effects, you should forbid any use of NNR.)

Bill Stoddard

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But (b) is always a GM judgment call. If you think that a heroic archer ought to have a chance of dropping an arrow when he's shooting with extreme speed, then you should disallow NNR for Fast-Draw (Arrow).

Or you can roll it into a normal failure. There's something to be said for eliminating Fast-Draw as a separate skill. Instead, something like:

Fast-Draw (Hard Technique); Default Skill-4, cannot exceed base skill.
Use this technique to use a weapon the same turn as you draw it.

This actually goes for most cases where NNR is appropriate; it should probably have never been a roll to start with, it should just be rolled into a general action roll.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Or you can roll it into a normal failure. There's something to be said for eliminating Fast-Draw as a separate skill.

That sort of thing might be good for 5/e, if there ever is a 5/e. The writing of 4/e provided techniques as a native element, but didn't systematically evaluate skills that could be cut down to techniques.

Bill Stoddard

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Rules Excemption is in that book and given that No-Nuisance Rolls is by default not meant to work for combat skill rolls, I felt that it might be fair to charge a small additional surcharge for allowing an excemption from that.

That'd be my thinking as well.

However, I'd also consider raising the skill requirement, so that you not only have to buy 2 Perks, Rules Exemption and No Nuisance Rolls, but that the effective skill in question must be 18+, rather than 16+.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

The only problem is that he is using a bow with at most ST5, this way it's easy.

That's a bit like what the Dragon-Slayers of my Ärth setting do.

They do train up very high Arm ST, but then they use bows that are slightly under-strength, instead of ones that are at the threshold of their draw strength, because that way they can do all sorts of fancy things, like holding the aim for a very long time, or launching a lot of arrows in a very short period of time. Things that would either be flat out impossible at a rated ST bow, or else cost a heck of a lot of FP, or involve serious risk of muscle damage (mild limb crippling, in GURPS terms).

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'm not concerned with real life, just reducing my rolls in DF. A couple of exemption Perks or RPK's Instant Shot would do the trick. Thought I'd see if there were any other takes on it.

I let guys with a net 16+ Fast-Draw (Arrow) skill buy a rule exemption perk to avoid the roll, as long as they're at that effective skill 16+. I limit it to Scouts in DF. All it really does is speed up combat and make for less headaches at the table, and people who like to roll a lot are welcome to save the point. Every Scout since I wrote that perk has taken it.

So it works and it's fine in play.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

I let guys with a net 16+ Fast-Draw (Arrow) skill buy a rule exemption perk to avoid the roll, as long as they're at that effective skill 16+. I limit it to Scouts in DF. All it really does is speed up combat and make for less headaches at the table, and people who like to roll a lot are welcome to save the point. Every Scout since I wrote that perk has taken it.

So it works and it's fine in play.

Thanks Peter!

I was wondering about your feeling on whether one would be advisable for the Quick ready roll for Bow as well (with the same effective skill requirements of course).