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Old 01-04-2012, 11:43 AM   #21
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Kage2020 View Post
I'm reading through this with interest, but a quick thought sprung to mind and won't go away. You might have addressed this already, in which case I missed it and my apologies, but what do you do about the gathering rolls for these high-energy spells? That could potentially be an awful amount of dice rolling. Could/would you concatenate it into few dice rolls?
I cheat, and use a script I wrote for MapTools that does all the rolling in about a second.

I need a project to learn C#... I should take a stab at writing this up again in that language, I suppose.

EDIT: In a DF context, there are often external sources of energy to tap into - even D&D has had standard magic items enhancing spellcasters in one way or another for the last two (and a half?) editions. As a player I'd also prioritize improving my own Magery just for the extra energy. Everything else is gravy, really.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Kage2020 View Post
I'm reading through this with interest, but a quick thought sprung to mind and won't go away. You might have addressed this already, in which case I missed it and my apologies, but what do you do about the gathering rolls for these high-energy spells? That could potentially be an awful amount of dice rolling. Could/would you concatenate it into few dice rolls?
What Bruno said. But you can also use the chart from MH: Sidekicks I think.
Haven't bought the book so only going second hand but I thought that was designed to give help for building Charms.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Kage2020 View Post
I'm reading through this with interest, but a quick thought sprung to mind and won't go away. You might have addressed this already, in which case I missed it and my apologies, but what do you do about the gathering rolls for these high-energy spells? That could potentially be an awful amount of dice rolling. Could/would you concatenate it into few dice rolls?
I specifically mentioned using the chart from MH4: Sidekicks, I believe. I'd even narrow that down some, breaking it down into one roll that gives Success/# Quirks/Critical Failure, all at once. Probably won't retain the same probabilities, but that's not a major concern.

EDIT: I will note that other sources of energy are almost useless, however - the vast majority of spells require significantly more energy than any amount of Magery or Energy Reserve can provide.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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EDIT: I will note that other sources of energy are almost useless, however - the vast majority of spells require significantly more energy than any amount of Magery or Energy Reserve can provide.
No, the vast amount of splashy dramatic flashy lights spells. Make more subdued spells and avoid the Greater tag and it's a lot cheaper :)

EDIT: I'd also say that Energy Reserve shouldn't be used as-written at all. Energy Reserve provides substitute FP, and that's not what you're looking for here. You need a new advantage. Same way as you'd mechanically different Power Items, and so forth.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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No, the vast amount of splashy dramatic flashy lights spells. Make more subdued spells and avoid the Greater tag and it's a lot cheaper :)

EDIT: I'd also say that Energy Reserve shouldn't be used as-written at all. Energy Reserve provides substitute FP, and that's not what you're looking for here. You need a new advantage. Same way as you'd mechanically different Power Items, and so forth.
Energy Reserve wouldn't provide substitute FP, it'd just provide Energy, one-for-one. This was discussed with RPK a while ago, I believe.

And even spells without being Greater all cost way too much to cast them by just using available energy. It's very hard to get a spell that costs less than about 10 energy; I don't think I've seen a single example spell like that. You might be able to get together 30 energy in a reserve, but that'd be very hard and cost a ridiculous amount of points, and the vast majority of rituals (greater or not) require more energy than that.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
What Bruno said. But you can also use the chart from MH: Sidekicks I think.
Haven't bought the book so only going second hand but I thought that was designed to give help for building Charms.
You're right. For some reason my brain didn't pay heed to the acronym on first blush. Thanks for the pointer. Looks like I might have to pick up MH: Sidekicks for for my own projects if those "quick and dirty" rolls are inspirational.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
No, the vast amount of splashy dramatic flashy lights spells. Make more subdued spells and avoid the Greater tag and it's a lot cheaper :)

EDIT: I'd also say that Energy Reserve shouldn't be used as-written at all. Energy Reserve provides substitute FP, and that's not what you're looking for here. You need a new advantage. Same way as you'd mechanically different Power Items, and so forth.
Given that Magery at 10 pts/level already gives 3 energy per level, I'd say that if anything, additional energy without the other benefits of Magery should come out cheaper than 3 pts/point of energy. After all, "For mana reserve only" strikes me as more than a -10% limitation. Don't know if I'd go so far as -70% to make 'Mana Reserve' cost a mere 1 CP per energy point, but -40%, so that it comes out to 2 CP per energy point? Sure.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
Given that Magery at 10 pts/level already gives 3 energy per level, I'd say that if anything, additional energy without the other benefits of Magery should come out cheaper than 3 pts/point of energy. After all, "For mana reserve only" strikes me as more than a -10% limitation. Don't know if I'd go so far as -70% to make 'Mana Reserve' cost a mere 1 CP per energy point, but -40%, so that it comes out to 2 CP per energy point? Sure.
'For Mana Reserve Only' isn't a valid limitation on Energy Reserve - ER already includes a built-in limitation similar to that. Further, RPK said that it's not an accident that ER 3 [9] + Perk [1] comes out to the same cost as Magery. In other words, ER is 3 points per level and provides one point of energy for rituals.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

Let's try some spells from Holmes with this idea, just to see if things work out pretty well.

Charm Person
Greater Control Mind [5] (Victim comes under the complete influence of the magic-user)
Duration: 2 weeks on average (can say that the effects from different intelligence are balanced around the mean) [10]
Range: 40 yards [8]
Cost: 69 (+15 for Lesser Control Magic tacked on to Pre-cast, so 84)

Detect Magic
Greater Sense Magic [2]
Duration: 20 minutes [1]
Range: 20 yards [0]
Cost: 9 [24], unless you think that this actually needs to give the caster Detect Magic as an Altered Trait.

Hold Portal
Greater Control Matter [5]
Duration: Up to 2 hours [4]
Range: 3 yards [1]
Weight: Up to 5 tons [6] (this should cover the largest dungeon gates or doors)
Cost: 48 (63)

Light
Greater Create Energy [6] (figure this covers sufficient light to avoid any darkness penalties without getting into Bonuses and Penalties; besides, those would mean it had a different cost depending on the existing penalties)
Area: 10 yards radius [8]
Duration: 70 minutes minimum [4]
Range: 40 yards [8]
Cost: 78 [93]

Magic Missile
Greater Create Matter [6]
Greater Control Matter [5]
Damage: 1d+1 [1]
Range: None, uses standard range penalties out to 50 yards
Cost: 60 [85]
(Higher levels may have to add Extra Attack with Multistrike and one attack only; I wouldn't make this require any additional effects, though)

Last edited by vitruvian; 01-04-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
'For Mana Reserve Only' isn't a valid limitation on Energy Reserve - ER already includes a built-in limitation similar to that. Further, RPK said that it's not an accident that ER 3 [9] + Perk [1] comes out to the same cost as Magery. In other words, ER is 3 points per level and provides one point of energy for rituals.
For Mana Reserve Only would be a limitation on Magery, not on Energy Reserve, if you reread what I posted.

As for Magery absent the mana reserve only being worth 1 pt per level... even though it caps Thaumatology and Path skills rather than adding to them in RPM, that seems a bit undervalued.
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