Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy

Ubiquitous · 12-24-2009, 12:16 AM

In a campaign I'm going along in, my character snapped under Greed and raided a Noble's Treasury, after one of the PCs (a knight, ironically) tried to stop him, snapped under his own Greed, and helped out.

Now, this takes place during a Rebellion, with the looting easily disguised as my character and the other's taking the wealth to keep it away from the unwashed masses. So now we have $20,000 each (at TL4!), with the knight having significantly more wealth due to liquidating his land and such; but, now the issue arises that me and him have lots of wealth, a nicely placed nest of influence, and social turmoil enough to allow a coup de tats upon the land.

So.

Can anyone describe the me the mechanics of raising an army in GURPS, or at least a small fighting force, how the economics of each would work, what equipment is used in TL4 armies (like, how do I combine melee arms' teams?) and how much of my Wealth this will cost.

Say I want to outfit 100 men, with food and upkeep costs lowered by pillaging and thievery?

Johnny Angel · 12-24-2009, 01:19 AM

Take a look at how hiring hirelings works as presented in Baic Set: Campaigns; that should give you some idea of how things might work. I'd also be sure to speak to your GM to see how he/she prefers to handle such things.

There are quite a few different ways you could go about raising and maintaining an army depending upon what sort of tactics you'd like to employ. Also, do you plan to be a roving band of marauders or do you plan to set up some sort of home base of operations? If you plan to set up a base, don't forget that it's probably a good idea to hire some people with non-combat skills to support the army.

If the people are already trying to revolt, it might not be too difficult to sway a few rebels to your side via propaganda.

Ubiquitous · 12-24-2009, 01:28 AM

Well, what I'm swinging for is nomadic commandos; I want stability and planning, so a base would be nice, but since the money I have is more or less only good for equipment and not really for refining an encampment, I don't think I have the option.

Also, dragon air-strikes is an issue.

Another note; Mages aren't exactly rare, but certainly combat mages are and those are hard to find and expensive to maintain; does anyone have any suggestions for supplying a stable of mages, but doing so affordably? (Power Stones are expeh-he-hensiiive...)

Kyle Aaron · 12-24-2009, 02:38 AM

As for the economics, $20,000 doesn't buy you much of an army. Just look at the equipment lists, and you'll realise why medieval armies tended to be dominated by guys with cheap spears, wooden shields and not much armour.

Then there's at least $1 a day to keep them alive, $4 or so a day if you want them to have more than a quartern loaf of bread to keep them going or any spending money. Call it $1,000 a year - presumably you want them for at least a year to conquer anything.

Now you know why many armies didn't pursue the defeated foe instead preferring to stop to loot the dead and the dropped weapons and armour, or why they liked to raid villages rather than confront armies :D

CrimsonDawn · 12-24-2009, 03:10 AM

GURPS Mass Combat is what you probably want.. 10 elements of TL 4 light infantry with whatever Equipment and Troop Quality modifiers are appropriate, and maybe with the Mercenary feature. Represent the pillaging and thievery by Low Readiness, which halves the cost to maintain.

Ubiquitous · 12-24-2009, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

As for the economics, $20,000 doesn't buy you much of an army. Just look at the equipment lists, and you'll realise why medieval armies tended to be dominated by guys with cheap spears, wooden shields and not much armour.

Then there's at least $1 a day to keep them alive, $4 or so a day if you want them to have more than a quartern loaf of bread to keep them going or any spending money. Call it $1,000 a year - presumably you want them for at least a year to conquer anything.

Now you know why many armies didn't pursue the defeated foe instead preferring to stop to loot the dead and the dropped weapons and armour, or why they liked to raid villages rather than confront armies :D

I know I'm not getting too much for $20,000. But I wanted to see how much of a force I COULD get if I chose to use it like that.

Kyle Aaron · 12-24-2009, 03:21 AM

Well, it's like anything. You choose between quality and quantity :)

Ubiquitous · 12-24-2009, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

Well, it's like anything. You choose between quality and quantity :)

Not really; in this case I can barely get any of either. Mostly what I'm looking for is a logical approach and the game mechanics to roll it on.

Kyle Aaron · 12-24-2009, 04:04 AM

You don't usually find well-equipped artisans willing to work for tuppence, nor do you find poorly-equipped ones expecting a fortune.

Thus, a rule of thumb I've used is that any person with a trade expects to be paid annually about what all the tools of their trade cost them, with a minimum of survival.

So if a blacksmith's shop costs them (say) $2,000, they expect to earn $2,000 a year. If a soldier's gear costs them (say) $1,000, they expect to earn that each year.

They can negotiate up based on circumstances, for example some tradesmen for the coming Wonthaggi desalination plant expect to be paid A$150,000 annually - why? because demand for the tradesmen exceeds supply, and the place is miles from anywhere. But rates for shipbreaking labourers in Bangladesh are rather low.

And the PCs can likewise negotiate based on their skills, connections and so on. Reaction rolls with the appropriate bonus/malus seem relevant here, plus a lot of roleplaying.

"We're recruiting an army to, um... fight and stuff" will probably only get you unskilled desperate types who might normally be beggars or bandits.

"Let us sally forth, destroy the evil wizard and free the land! Plus there'll be loot for all!" might get you more competent people.

CrimsonDawn · 12-24-2009, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Not really; in this case I can barely get any of either. Mostly what I'm looking for is a logical approach and the game mechanics to roll it on.

You'd get the 10 elements (100 men) of average quality, average equipment, low readiness TL 4 light infantry mercenaries (plus the logistics force) with $90K / month.. you'r budget seems to be a tad tight.

Drop your troop quality to inferior and equipment to poor, and you could drop that to $22.5 per month - more affordable, yes, but not nearly as useful (TS 20 vs. TS 80).

But I really recommend Mass Combat for you for all of this stuff, especially if you want the rules to actually do something with your troops.

12-24-2009, 12:16 AM	#1
Ubiquitous Join Date: Oct 2009	Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy In a campaign I'm going along in, my character snapped under Greed and raided a Noble's Treasury, after one of the PCs (a knight, ironically) tried to stop him, snapped under his own Greed, and helped out. Now, this takes place during a Rebellion, with the looting easily disguised as my character and the other's taking the wealth to keep it away from the unwashed masses. So now we have $20,000 each (at TL4!), with the knight having significantly more wealth due to liquidating his land and such; but, now the issue arises that me and him have lots of wealth, a nicely placed nest of influence, and social turmoil enough to allow a coup de tats upon the land. So. Can anyone describe the me the mechanics of raising an army in GURPS, or at least a small fighting force, how the economics of each would work, what equipment is used in TL4 armies (like, how do I combine melee arms' teams?) and how much of my Wealth this will cost. Say I want to outfit 100 men, with food and upkeep costs lowered by pillaging and thievery?

12-24-2009, 01:19 AM	#2
Johnny Angel MIB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Pennsylvania	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy Take a look at how hiring hirelings works as presented in Baic Set: Campaigns; that should give you some idea of how things might work. I'd also be sure to speak to your GM to see how he/she prefers to handle such things. There are quite a few different ways you could go about raising and maintaining an army depending upon what sort of tactics you'd like to employ. Also, do you plan to be a roving band of marauders or do you plan to set up some sort of home base of operations? If you plan to set up a base, don't forget that it's probably a good idea to hire some people with non-combat skills to support the army. If the people are already trying to revolt, it might not be too difficult to sway a few rebels to your side via propaganda.

12-24-2009, 01:28 AM	#3
Ubiquitous Join Date: Oct 2009	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy Well, what I'm swinging for is nomadic commandos; I want stability and planning, so a base would be nice, but since the money I have is more or less only good for equipment and not really for refining an encampment, I don't think I have the option. Also, dragon air-strikes is an issue. Another note; Mages aren't exactly rare, but certainly combat mages are and those are hard to find and expensive to maintain; does anyone have any suggestions for supplying a stable of mages, but doing so affordably? (Power Stones are expeh-he-hensiiive...)

12-24-2009, 02:38 AM	#4
Kyle Aaron MIB Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy As for the economics, $20,000 doesn't buy you much of an army. Just look at the equipment lists, and you'll realise why medieval armies tended to be dominated by guys with cheap spears, wooden shields and not much armour. Then there's at least $1 a day to keep them alive, $4 or so a day if you want them to have more than a quartern loaf of bread to keep them going or any spending money. Call it $1,000 a year - presumably you want them for at least a year to conquer anything. Now you know why many armies didn't pursue the defeated foe instead preferring to stop to loot the dead and the dropped weapons and armour, or why they liked to raid villages rather than confront armies :D __________________ * husband * father * personal trainer * gamer * ... in that order "Kyle's games aren't remotely thespy... I'd say they're more high-minded hack."

12-24-2009, 03:10 AM	#5
CrimsonDawn Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy GURPS Mass Combat is what you probably want.. 10 elements of TL 4 light infantry with whatever Equipment and Troop Quality modifiers are appropriate, and maybe with the Mercenary feature. Represent the pillaging and thievery by Low Readiness, which halves the cost to maintain.

12-24-2009, 03:21 AM	#7
Kyle Aaron MIB Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy Well, it's like anything. You choose between quality and quantity :) __________________ * husband * father * personal trainer * gamer * ... in that order "Kyle's games aren't remotely thespy... I'd say they're more high-minded hack."

12-24-2009, 04:04 AM	#9
Kyle Aaron MIB Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Re: Raising an army in TL3-4 High Fantasy You don't usually find well-equipped artisans willing to work for tuppence, nor do you find poorly-equipped ones expecting a fortune. Thus, a rule of thumb I've used is that any person with a trade expects to be paid annually about what all the tools of their trade cost them, with a minimum of survival. So if a blacksmith's shop costs them (say) $2,000, they expect to earn $2,000 a year. If a soldier's gear costs them (say) $1,000, they expect to earn that each year. They can negotiate up based on circumstances, for example some tradesmen for the coming Wonthaggi desalination plant expect to be paid A$150,000 annually - why? because demand for the tradesmen exceeds supply, and the place is miles from anywhere. But rates for shipbreaking labourers in Bangladesh are rather low. And the PCs can likewise negotiate based on their skills, connections and so on. Reaction rolls with the appropriate bonus/malus seem relevant here, plus a lot of roleplaying. "We're recruiting an army to, um... fight and stuff" will probably only get you unskilled desperate types who might normally be beggars or bandits. "Let us sally forth, destroy the evil wizard and free the land! Plus there'll be loot for all!" might get you more competent people. __________________ * husband * father * personal trainer * gamer * ... in that order "Kyle's games aren't remotely thespy... I'd say they're more high-minded hack."