[RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

That's what I kind of meant. Basically, Path of Body affects things that are directly related to the body and distinguish it among other bodies. Path of Energy affects things where the body distinction is not necessary. You don't need to target a body to cause a thunderstorm. Likewise with halt, you don't need to target the body to affect the kinetic energy it exerts. You target the energy, because you can have kinetic energy without having organic bodies.

But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?

Because RPM is not organized around physical logic, of course. Everything is really energy and matter, but from a less reductionist perspective (and magic is downright anti-reductionist in general) some energy and matter is special.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?

The major distinction here is "living thing." Path of Energy is anything that isn't a living thing (Halt just cancels out current momentum, without causing any harm).

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?

Because the bioelectric energy is required for neuron function and so forth? i.e Path of Body.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Because RPM is not organized around physical logic, of course. Everything is really energy and matter, but from a less reductionist perspective (and magic is downright anti-reductionist in general) some energy and matter is special.

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

The major distinction here is "living thing." Path of Energy is anything that isn't a living thing (Halt just cancels out current momentum, without causing any harm).

I don't have a problem with dividing Body vs. Matter. I have a problem with dividing Energy (alone) and Energy (with Body/Matter/Spirit/Undead).

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

Because the bioelectric energy is required for neuron function and so forth? i.e Path of Body.

And chemical energy is required for fire to function, i.e. Path of Matter.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

And chemical energy is required for fire to function, i.e. Path of Matter.

Chemical energy within the body so still Path of Body.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

Chemical energy within the body so still Path of Body.

I don't think a dead firewood counts as Body anymore.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I don't think a dead firewood counts as Body anymore.

I would have counted it as matter when it was both alive and dead personally.

In any case, what I should have said was 'that the body requires to function'.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I don't have a problem with dividing Body vs. Matter. I have a problem with dividing Energy (alone) and Energy (with Body/Matter/Spirit/Undead).



And chemical energy is required for fire to function, i.e. Path of Matter.

I don't think a fire is considered to be a 'Matter' object (and obviously not any of the other three). The fuel would be.

Energy alone seems to generally act on energy that is not intrinsic to the structure of an object under one of the other domains.

Energy will heat air, but isn't good if you want to alter the configuration of chemical bonds in the molecules.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Vicky_Molokh

But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?

With the proviso that my experience with Ritual Magic is entirely 3rd ed., so I don’t know the specifics here: but is that what’s actually happening? It seems by the argument so far that you can’t disrupt the flow of chemical energy in a fire by attacking the interface between Matter and Energy without using the Path of Matter, but are you attacking that interface with Destroy Lesser Energy?

Destroy Lesser Energy sounds as if it is directly attacking the energy rather than the interface between the matter and energy and stops the fire by destroying enough energy that the reaction is no longer self-sustaining. I’d tend to visualize the effect as a sudden decrease from a log blazing to a few licks of flame that burn themselves down to embers within a minute or so.

By that token you couldn’t disrupt the bioelectricity in a body without using Path of Body but you probably could use Destroy Bioelectricity using Path of Energy alone. GURPS doesn’t particularly go for instant kill spells, so I think the reasoning preventing Destroy Bioelectricity from being lethal would likely run along the lines of, it is instantaneous in its effect so it only destroys the bioelectricity that was present in cells that were firing at that exact instant. Those cells that were electrically at rest were unaffected. Much like curses on large areas/large groups, you won’t get all the firing cells, only most of them. The best you can reasonably hope for is the creation of a momentary nervous paralysis that will last for a second or two before the cells affected can fire again as Destroy Bioelectricity leaves the chemicals in the cell unaffected.