[Spaceships] Pair of wing-mounted weapons

[Stormcrow]

Suppose you've got a ship with a pair of fixed, wing-mounted beam weapons that always fire together, as might appear in some older science-fiction films. How are those represented in Spaceships?

• A single major battery, with the understanding that the two weapons count as a single weapon in the system?
• Two major battery systems, with the understanding that a hit with one is a hit with both, but one can be disabled or destroyed while the other can still fire?
• A medium battery with two weapons plus cargo space?
• Something else?

[ericbsmith]

So you're saying that the beams converge and combine, so they are effectively one weapon? I'd build them as a single Major Battery, the fact that the beam comes out of two places and converges is just special effects.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

So you're saying that the beams converge and combine, so they are effectively one weapon? I'd build them as a single Major Battery, the fact that the beam comes out of two places and converges is just special effects.

Agreed, assuming you're comfortable with damage always happening to the pair. I.e. you simply can't destroy just one of the two beams; if one is disabled, they both are.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Suppose you've got a ship with a pair of fixed, wing-mounted beam weapons that always fire together, as might appear in some older science-fiction films. How are those represented in Spaceships?

• A single major battery, with the understanding that the two weapons count as a single weapon in the system?
• Two major battery systems, with the understanding that a hit with one is a hit with both, but one can be disabled or destroyed while the other can still fire?
• A medium battery with two weapons plus cargo space?
• Something else?

Something like an X-Wing? The Starhawk in Spaceships 4 is a good example. You can fire any number of fixed mount weapons that face the same direction and are the same type with a single gunnery action. So if you have 4 cannons facing forward, you could have 4 major batteries, or a secondary battery with 4 weapons and some cargo space, or two medium batteries with some cargo space, or whatever you like in between.

I probably wouldn't go for a single major battery and we just say they're multiple weapons because that's already what a medium and secondary battery is: the same weight, the same slot, but more weapons. That's why they do less damage, but collectively they'll have superior ROF, which makes sense: if you're firing 4 cannons at someone, you're firing 4x the shots that someone firing one cannon at someone is firing.

[Stormcrow]

Thanks for the answers. Before I posted I looked at footage of an X-Wing; their four lasers aren't fired simultaneously, but clockwise around the wings, though they're apparently all targeted together. I wasn't sure which sample ship might be the X-Wing knockoff.

[Mailanka]

The starhawk is definitely the ship to look at. I have a post on my blog that really looks at the starhawk and comes up with some variations, including a two-wing variant, and a six-wing variant. You can see how I handle the guns there.

(You'll have to scroll down, as I tackle more than just the Starhawk)

[wellspring]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Suppose you've got a ship with a pair of fixed, wing-mounted beam weapons that always fire together, as might appear in some older science-fiction films. How are those represented in Spaceships?

• A single major battery, with the understanding that the two weapons count as a single weapon in the system?
• Two major battery systems, with the understanding that a hit with one is a hit with both, but one can be disabled or destroyed while the other can still fire?
• A medium battery with two weapons plus cargo space?
• Something else?

Well, something else covers a lot of ground. As an avid player of X-wing and other cinematic space fighter games, it would often take some effort to get both beams to hit, especially if they were spaced far apart from one another on opposite wingtips. So if I did go with a single major battery to represent both beams, I'd use the Improved option to double their RoF. Sometimes you hit with one or the other, sometimes both, depending on pilot skill.

However, I think it would be better to follow the precedent of existing ship examples and have multiple weapons be represented by multiple weapon systems. That's got all kinds of advantages. How do you distinguish between a ship like an X-wing with a battery of small lasers and a strike craft like a B wing with one large cannon?

And if that cargo space bothers you, remember the Small Systems rule. That remaining third of a slot can be used for all kinds of other things.

[weby]

Originally Posted by wellspring

And if that cargo space bothers you, remember the Small Systems rule. That remaining third of a slot can be used for all kinds of other things.

Like the power plant for the weapons..

[wellspring]

Yes!

Now here's another question. Since I brought up space sims, something has been bothering me. Games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen have started to center on three main types of weapon mount. You have fixed weapons that have to be aimed by moving the ship, gimballed weapons that can be aimed but only within a fire arc, and turreted weapons that have broad fields of fire they can be aimed in.

Spaceships only has fixed weapons, which resemble gimbal mounts, and turret weapons.

Has anyone else run into this? I feel like with the revival of the space sim that it's time to revisit this whole question so the game can map a little more closely to where the source material has been going.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by wellspring

However, I think it would be better to follow the precedent of existing ship examples and have multiple weapons be represented by multiple weapon systems. That's got all kinds of advantages. How do you distinguish between a ship like an X-wing with a battery of small lasers and a strike craft like a B wing with one large cannon?

Agreed. For an X-Wing I would use Medium Batteries. When I suggested using a single Major Battery I was envisioning something more like the the way the Death Star itself fires, where the beams converge on a single point, combine, then shoot off as a single beam. For multiple weapons all fixed and facing the same direction I'd just use Fixed Mount Medium Batteries. If a single pilot is aiming a number of the same type of weapon at the same target I would make a single to-hit roll for all fixed batteries, with the RoF being the combined RoF of all the weapons.

Originally Posted by wellspring

And if that cargo space bothers you, remember the Small Systems rule. That remaining third of a slot can be used for all kinds of other things.

Originally Posted by weby

Like the power plant for the weapons..

Or storing more missiles for your missile launchers.

Honestly, though, I would have no problem building an X-Wing as having two Medium Batteries with four laser beams and two Missile Launchers between them and calling it a day. Their exact placement is a special effect in the Spaceships rules anyway. The other option, of course, is to mount 5-6 Major Batteries the way the Starhawk does. It depends on how much of the ship you want relegate to weapon systems.

Originally Posted by wellspring

Has anyone else run into this? I feel like with the revival of the space sim that it's time to revisit this whole question so the game can map a little more closely to where the source material has been going.

I wouldn't worry about the difference. While there are some real-world differences in how a gimbal mount vs a true fixed mount can be aimed and fired, how much of that translates into the spaceships combat rules is pretty minimal. The only real difference that would definitely show up in the spaceship rules is that a true fixed mount can only be fired by aiming the ship while a gimbal mount can be fired in a limited arc from the direction it is facing, meaning it can be fired by its own gunner and not just the pilot.