[RPM] High Craft vs. Alchemy (by other skill)?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

I've examined the High Craft article/section from Pyramid #3/66 The Laws of Magic, and I'm not getting it. High Craft seems to overall require more fuss, be more limited, and have less clear mechanics than RPM Alchemy. Is there any reason to use High Craft instead of just using a different skill in place of Alchemy (and adding the obligatory -1 to -3 for Hard to Easy skills)? What am I missing?

Thanks in advance!

[GodBeastX]

It's more for the non-mage casters that RPM supports. Imagine, for example, you are a smith and want to imbue your crafts. You can use your smithing skill to do it. In a way, alchemy is already a high craft for RPM rules.

Another difference is, you just have to take a perk instead of magery 0 to use it. So to summarize.

Take your usual craft skills, use a point on a perk, now you can imbue that stuff at 12 skill.

[Refplace]

It looked to me more like a RPM conversion of craft magic from Thaumatology, so RPM vs. meditative magic is the main change. Plus refinement on options.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

I've examined the High Craft article/section from Pyramid #3/66 The Laws of Magic, and I'm not getting it. High Craft seems to overall require more fuss, be more limited, and have less clear mechanics than RPM Alchemy. Is there any reason to use High Craft instead of just using a different skill in place of Alchemy (and adding the obligatory -1 to -3 for Hard to Easy skills)? What am I missing?

Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

It's more for the non-mage casters that RPM supports. Imagine, for example, you are a smith and want to imbue your crafts. You can use your smithing skill to do it. In a way, alchemy is already a high craft for RPM rules.

Another difference is, you just have to take a perk instead of magery 0 to use it. So to summarize.

Take your usual craft skills, use a point on a perk, now you can imbue that stuff at 12 skill.

Originally Posted by Refplace

It looked to me more like a RPM conversion of craft magic from Thaumatology, so RPM vs. meditative magic is the main change. Plus refinement on options.

Basically what these guys said. It's meant to model characters like Wayland the Smith who's a excellent smith and his weapons where thought to be imbued by magic. You're also forgetting that High Craft reduces some Greater effects to Lesser ones thanks to the secret knowledge of shortcuts the skill provides.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You're also forgetting that High Craft reduces some Greater effects to Lesser ones thanks to the secret knowledge of shortcuts the skill provides.

When not under an affliction, could you or somebody else point me to the place where it says so? I see the opposite - not being able to work Greater Effects until skill 20.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Basically what these guys said. It's meant to model characters like Wayland the Smith who's a excellent smith and his weapons where thought to be imbued by magic.

Hmm. So let's see if I'm getting it right:

HC (High Craft) vs. A (Alchemy mechanics, but likely done by using another skill).

Magery 0:
HC: buy a Craft-Mage perk [1] per skill used.
A: bought at -25% (Elixirs Only).

Magery 1+:
HC: bought at -60%.
A: bought at -25% (Elixirs Only).

Skill cap:
HC: High Craft capped at Craft Skill or 12+Magery, whichever is lower.
A: Alchemy capped at 12+Magery, but doesn't need another skill.

Gear:
HC: normal crafting gear assumed (right?).
A: no gear at -5, improvised gear at -2, otherwise as a Workspace Kit. Natural Alchemist helps.

Time required:
HC: crafting time + 10 minutes per casting roll.
A: 1 hour + normal casting time (about 5 min per roll w/o Adept, 5 sec with it).

Adept Advantages:
HC: not available.
A: works as usual, can take -25% for Elixirs Only.

----

Seems like replacing the Alchemy skill by some other skill for purposes of high-craft-like stuff might be the nicer way to game-mechanise WoW-ish craftsmen.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

When not under an affliction, could you or somebody else point me to the place where it says so? I see the opposite - not being able to work Greater Effects until skill 20.

Right, which means you can only work Lesser effects. But, some things that should be Greater effects, can at the GM's option, become Lesser effects thanks to the secrets of the High Craft.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Magery 0:
HC: buy a Craft-Mage perk [1] per skill used.
A: bought at -25% (Elixirs Only).

I intentionally reduced the price to a mere perk, because of the limited nature of the magic until higher levels. This was approved by others.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Magery 1+:
HC: bought at -60%.
A: bought at -25% (Elixirs Only).

Keep in mind that Alchemy is any magical spell you could put into a elixir. Any. High Craft is "any related to your craft." That is a huge difference.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Skill cap:
HC: High Craft capped at Craft Skill or 12+Magery, whichever is lower.
A: Alchemy capped at 12+Magery, but doesn't need another skill.

For alchemy, Thaumatology does still play a role, just not visible one. You use the higher of your Alchemy skill or your Path skill, whichever is better.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Gear:
HC: normal crafting gear assumed (right?).
A: no gear at -5, improvised gear at -2, otherwise as a Workspace Kit. Natural Alchemist helps.

Actually, you don't need gear for High Craft - but it does help. If he creates the item he wants to cast the spell on right after he makes it he can give himself a bonus. This doesn't stop High Craft Carpenters from shoring up enchantments they or someone else has done on woodwork, casting spells to find the "best wood for a job," and other similarly related magic. It just takes them longer when casting.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Time required:
HC: crafting time + 10 minutes per casting roll.
A: 1 hour + normal casting time (about 5 min per roll w/o Adept, 5 sec with it).

Again, you don't have to make a item to affect it with magic - it just needs to be related in a logical way. Let's use the High Craft Carpenter again - say he wants to find out where a wooden structure is weak. He could cast Lesser Sense High Craft (Carpentry) to find the location of the structural defect. The GM might even rule that he could benefit from a Greater effect (locating all weaknesses, not just the one he is looking for) though it counts as a Lesser effect for him.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Adept Advantages:
HC: not available.
A: works as usual, can take -25% for Elixirs Only.

Again, High Craft is all about subtle magic - Alchemy isn't. Alchemy works like regular RPM, just in drinkable form.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Seems like replacing the Alchemy skill by some other skill for purposes of high-craft-like stuff might be the nicer way to game-mechanise WoW-ish craftsmen.

Well, if you had to do it like High Craft, ban Ritual Adept, add "Limited Scope, Lesser Effects only" (-10%), "Takes Extra Time 1" (-10%), "Limited Scope, Things that could logically be potions" (-15%). And require all potions made to be made using Magery. That's as good a hack as any, you could rule that Alchemy is another form of High Craft, but in order for it to be valid you have to limit its currently unlimited scope. Thank you for your consideration, by the way, feeling a ton better today. :-)