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Old 07-18-2005, 08:31 AM   #11
Peter V. Dell'Orto
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
We've discovered a potentially significant problem with the Death Vision spell. The spell has no resistance roll, and mentally stuns the victim. Since it has no resistance roll, advantages like: Unfazeable or Immune: Mind Affecting Magic do not actually defend or assist.
The solution we've used in my fantasy game is that Death Vision is Mind Affecting Magic (no use Death Vision-ing a zombie, he's been there) and that it is resisted by IQ. If you make the resistance, you see the vision but are not stunned. If you failed, you see the vision and are Mentally Stunned. Recovery from Mental Stun is done normally.

Works fine. My PCs just fought through an island full of pygmy necromancers who used Death Vision constantly - 7 guys casting it at skills ranging from 18 to 25, and 1 guy casting it at 30. They saw themselves die a lot, but rarely got stunned because of their high resistances.
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Old 07-18-2005, 08:56 AM   #12
Luther
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Jahn,
your replies to this thread seem not very useful and to the point: He asks "is spell X broken", you write "why bother, it's irrelevant". Uh?

Fnord,
I would ask Kromm about the spell description. Maybe Death Vision is meant to work only once: after the first time you see the vision, it isn't going to bother you as much. Is it? I dunno, it's magic after all.
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Luther: maybe not once at all, but once a hour? You may see different visions.

But making it resistable spell makes sense. I miss some kind of paralysis spell in GURPS. I also like idea of paralysation for some time (based on margin of success / failure) with special effect that pain may remove paralysis anytime. It's very cinematic :)
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

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Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
As for your comments re "It was busted 16 years ago, and will still be busted tomorrow" - well, some of us live in hope that Magic will get updated to 4th edition at some point. (And no, I don't think the current printing counts).
I should clarify that I don't think the spell is broken and I think Magic 3E is fine for GURPS 4E.
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

For what it is worth, the original Death Vision spell gave the victim a saving roll of sorts. The original saving roll was a Fright Check roll at -5. There are in fact, some advantages that would have negated that by virtue of allowing for automatic fright check saving rolls. I would suggest that when you ask if an errata is neccessary - if it was the intent of the author of GURPS MAGIC for 4e intended to remove that entirely, or if that was a cut & paste error. It might even have been something as simple as "Ok, you're 8 words over count here - find something to snip."

I doubt it is that, but hey, give'm the benefit of the doubt.

I sincerely doubt that the makers of GURPS intended for there to be an attack against for which there is no defense when it comes to GURPS MAGIC.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:48 PM   #16
Kromm
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Er, it is a form of mental influence, and those immune to mental influence in general will be immune to Death Vision, too.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Er, it is a form of mental influence, and those immune to mental influence in general will be immune to Death Vision, too.
More generally, for those who haven't paid 30 points for Immune to Mind Control
  1. How often can you be stunned with Death Vision?
  2. What does and doesn't make you immune? Unfazeable?
  3. Does it take an action to recover from the Mental Stun?
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Old 07-18-2005, 08:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
  1. How often can you be stunned with Death Vision?
  2. What does and doesn't make you immune? Unfazeable?
  3. Does it take an action to recover from the Mental Stun?
1. As often as the spell is cast.

2. Someone who has Immunity to Mind Control or Unfazeable would be immune. Someone with Magic Resistance would give the caster a penalty.

3. You lose one turn to it, yes.

And note that the spell being irresistible is not a new thing. If it bugs you, just make it resistible by IQ.
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Old 07-18-2005, 08:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
And note that the spell being irresistible is not a new thing. If it bugs you, just make it resistible by IQ.
In 3e it was irresistable, but you made a Fright Check at -5, instead of "Auto-Stun", from memory. Sufficient levels of mental fortitude were enough to resist.

I understand the change - fewer dice rolls and table lookups, and less chance of very poor luck on the PC victim's part leading to "Whoops - age 5 years and lose a point of IQ" - and most low-range Fright check results amount to "Stunned".
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:34 PM   #20
Luther
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
In 3e it was irresistable, but you made a Fright Check at -5, instead of "Auto-Stun", from memory.
I can't find this in Magic 2nd edition (p72). Was it in a previous version?
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