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Old 09-14-2009, 06:33 AM   #31
JCD
 
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

My reference comes from Superiors: Lilith, coming from the mechanics of geases. Anyone can swear a geas who can manipulate Essence.

My reference as to geases in general come from the Ethereal Discord (?) section in the Core rules. It seems any character can have sworn geases...but not at the beginning of the game.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

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Originally Posted by JCD View Post
My reference comes from Superiors: Lilith, coming from the mechanics of geases. Anyone can swear a geas who can manipulate Essence.

My reference as to geases in general come from the Ethereal Discord (?) section in the Core rules. It seems any character can have sworn geases...but not at the beginning of the game.
Maybe someone official will chime in here but I always read that as anyone that could manipulate their essence could swear a geas to a lilim and basicaly just skip the resistable hook phase and more on to the full fledge geas that can be put of but not truely resisted.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

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Originally Posted by JCD View Post
My reference comes from Superiors: Lilith, coming from the mechanics of geases. Anyone can swear a geas who can manipulate Essence.
Looking at page 36 of the Lilith pdf?

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Originally Posted by SupsLilith
Anyone consciously able to expend Essence may, if he wishes, promise a favor to a Lilim – specified or unspecified. She need only exert her will (no roll required, just a round of concentration, but the subject must not resist) and the Geas will manifest.
That's pretty bluntly and obviously only in the context of promising a favor to a Lilim. The only other being that can cause a Geas to manifest is a Superior.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

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Originally Posted by alexondria View Post
Maybe someone official will chime in here but I always read that as anyone that could manipulate their essence could swear a geas to a lilim and basicaly just skip the resistable hook phase and more on to the full fledge geas that can be put of but not truely resisted.
That's what I intended when I wrote it, yes. JCD, if the text you're referring to isn't what William quoted, can you post (or email to me) the part that's being confusing, so I can make errata to clarify it?

While there may be other ways of getting a Geas upon oneself, such as Superiors, ethereals, sorcerous rituals the GM makes up, or Discord rolls... (I'm honestly not sure how that would work out, but if a Seraph promised something, knowing it was a lie, I would totally be inclined to keep track of that and turn later Seraph Discord into a Geas) ...the overwhelmingly more-common method is via Lilim.
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:24 AM   #35
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

I guess my question is one of ambiguity, at least on my part. Yes, William referenced the appropriate section, and (bad dog) I hadn't reread the section when I posted.

It just seemed that in the core rules, geases did not seem merely the domain of Lilim when discussed in the Discord section. It seemed that anyone could swear one out, and frankly, if a known snake, was expected to.

This might have been some confusion in the design process, or more likely, me overinterpreting. I kind of like the idea of a Celestial being able to swear their own geases. There certainly is a lot of literary support for it.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

If you're speaking of the core rules... Yeah, they're a little fuzzy on where Geases come from, and don't reference Lilim enough. I suspect this may be from a prior version of the rules.... I think Impudites used to Geas, too? I'd have to go digging around, but I recall that Geases didn't used to be Lilim-resonance alone. (Or maybe it was Lilim who Charmed and Geased...)

Do poke me if you see any really ambiguous lines, though. I may not be able to do anything elegantly in errata, but then again, I might be able to.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

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Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
If you're speaking of the core rules... Yeah, they're a little fuzzy on where Geases come from, and don't reference Lilim enough. I suspect this may be from a prior version of the rules.... I think Impudites used to Geas, too? I'd have to go digging around, but I recall that Geases didn't used to be Lilim-resonance alone. (Or maybe it was Lilim who Charmed and Geased...)

Do poke me if you see any really ambiguous lines, though. I may not be able to do anything elegantly in errata, but then again, I might be able to.
If Geases are meant to be Lilim-specific, then the Discord description on p. 88 should be changed. The segment:"A Geas is the only Discord that angels do not see as a sign of weakness, but it does imply that a character can't be held to a normal promise." That sentence actually has a lot of rather strange implications, including the idea that Geases are fairly common in Heaven. If Geases only come from Lilim, then an angel with a Geas would be automatically suspected of consorting with demons. I's say that the easiest way to clarify that segment is to just get rid of it. The other confusing bit is at the end, where if says that "If the GM is inflicting a geas, it should be related to whatever misstep... The Lilim Resonance can also inflict a Geas." If Lilim are the only/primary source, the mention of lilim should come first, and state that that is the usual method of getting one, followed by a note that the GM can add other potential sources as desired.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:34 PM   #38
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

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Originally Posted by DAlillama View Post
If Geases are meant to be Lilim-specific, then the Discord description on p. 88 should be changed. The segment:"A Geas is the only Discord that angels do not see as a sign of weakness, but it does imply that a character can't be held to a normal promise." That sentence actually has a lot of rather strange implications, including the idea that Geases are fairly common in Heaven. If Geases only come from Lilim, then an angel with a Geas would be automatically suspected of consorting with demons. I's say that the easiest way to clarify that segment is to just get rid of it. The other confusing bit is at the end, where if says that "If the GM is inflicting a geas, it should be related to whatever misstep... The Lilim Resonance can also inflict a Geas." If Lilim are the only/primary source, the mention of lilim should come first, and state that that is the usual method of getting one, followed by a note that the GM can add other potential sources as desired.
I think the intention was that a Geas could come from a Lilim or a Superior (since Superiors possess all the powers of all their Choirs/Bands, including the Bright/Dark Lilim as appropriate). Otherwise, yes, the passage would seem odd indeed ...
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:40 PM   #39
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

Isn't there a Song that functionally layers a Geas on someone who willingly swears an Oath? And one of Marc's Servitor Attunements does something willingly, too.


I am pretty sure that only Lilim can add a Geas to themselves at will, and only Lilim can turn the promise of a non-Lilim into a Geas (effectively, they are using their resonance but on a non-resisting subject). As with anything else in the game, Superiors, powerful Ethereals, rare relics, Interventions, and GM fiat are the exceptions.
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: Quick question on geases

Divine Contract (the Trade attunement) isn't a Geas per se, it just involves setting up a contract so that if either party breaks it they take Body Hits.

I don't know about the Song, I don't recall one, but maybe there is one, I don't feel like digging through my copy of L. Cant right now.
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