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Old 08-13-2009, 08:43 PM   #1
Figleaf23
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Default [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

wer = word
os = bone
weros = truth


Hello,

I just got High-tech and Thaumatology. I've decided to read High-tech straight thru, but I thought I'd take a different approach to Thaumatology.

I'm interested in:

-language
-Odin/runes
-consciousness
-Carlos Castaneda's concept of 'sorceror'
-the iterative role of consciousness/reality in mutual self-construction
-the notion that language mediates the above
-the notion that the more chthonic the language, the more it may do the above, yea unto to the extent of sustaining/generating 'magic' effects
-using proto-indo-european (PIE) as an example of such cthonic language for game purposes.

In this regard, I'd like to consult the 'hivemind' -- how should I approach reading Thaumatology to take a direct route to building the above as the magical paradigm for a campaign?
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:07 PM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
wer = word
os = bone
weros = truth


Hello,

I just got High-tech and Thaumatology. I've decided to read High-tech straight thru, but I thought I'd take a different approach to Thaumatology.

I'm interested in:
<snip>
In this regard, I'd like to consult the 'hivemind' -- how should I approach reading Thaumatology to take a direct route to building the above as the magical paradigm for a campaign?
You should read Thaumatology cover-to-cover, say Oh Wow! Oh Wow! Oh Wow! for 20 minutes straight, then meditate upon what you have read for however long may be necessary.

Then you should read Thaumatology cover-to-cover again.

Anything else will not be the shortest path to what you really want. I could identify multiple items out of what you listed from a single textbox but they would be selling the book very short.

High Tech is very good (and I consider it a great honor to be listed among its' playtesters) but that's the book you could hopscotch through if you didn't have the time to go cover-to-cover.

However, Thaumatology (which I also consider a great honor to be listed in) is _dense_ with all things mystical. It;'s going to take you a long time to digest it.

I've been going back to it frequently ever since it was published (after doing the cover-to-cover thing) and I think I'm just now getting ready to grapple with everything possible with its' system of Realm Magic (after possibly digesting standard Magic, variants thereof and Path/Booik Magic).
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

read the symbols, realm and syntactic sections, dig for references to spirits, look at the rest. it takes a lot to absorb some sections and others are easily overlooked such that you find new interpertations and ideas on rereading them.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

I'll just say that I love the idea of

Magery 0 (no spell prerequisites, +20%) [6]
Magery 4 (no spell prerequisites, +20%) [48]

Those nine points could have gone into spells, but are instead used to ignore the whole prerequisite chain notion that they seem to be so worked up over.

I would totally do this even for a 100-point mage. And, because it's useful, internally consistent, and cost-effective, most GMs are going to veto it outright.
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
I'll just say that I love the idea of

Magery 0 (no spell prerequisites, +20%) [6]
Magery 4 (no spell prerequisites, +20%) [48]

Those nine points could have gone into spells, but are instead used to ignore the whole prerequisite chain notion that they seem to be so worked up over.

I would totally do this even for a 100-point mage. And, because it's useful, internally consistent, and cost-effective, most GMs are going to veto it outright.
As you have it written, I would never make a mage any differently ever again. Heck, I would pay +50% for that ability; it would clean up your spell list so nicely.

However, the only reference to "no spell prerequisites" I can find is on Thaumatology pg. 67, in reference to Power Investiture -- specifically as a way to elegantly "create" Power Investiture out of Magery -- and it costs +30%. Is there somewhere else I should be looking?
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

I must have had the modifier memorized wrong (I don't have the book with me).
Eidetic Memory, failure by 1.
It's still worth doing, though Magery 0 [7] and Magery 4 [52] is more than half my usual starting budget(my GM is still used to 3e).
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

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Those nine points could have gone into spells, but are instead used to ignore the whole prerequisite chain notion that they seem to be so worked up over.
I'm not worked up over spell prerequisite chains; I didn't invent them, and happily run games with other sorts of magic. Certainly, I sometimes think that particular spells have wacky or ill-chosen prerequisite requirements. But I do think that they're an elegant solution to a set of potential problems, and an interesting structural framework.

But anyway, I explained all this in the same book where I offered the optional enhancement to Magery to get round them.
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Old 08-14-2009, 06:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You should read Thaumatology cover-to-cover, say Oh Wow! Oh Wow! Oh Wow! for 20 minutes straight, then meditate upon what you have read for however long may be necessary.

Then you should read Thaumatology cover-to-cover again.

Anything else will not be the shortest path to what you really want. I could identify multiple items out of what you listed from a single textbox but they would be selling the book very short.

High Tech is very good (and I consider it a great honor to be listed among its' playtesters) but that's the book you could hopscotch through if you didn't have the time to go cover-to-cover.

However, Thaumatology (which I also consider a great honor to be listed in) is _dense_ with all things mystical. It;'s going to take you a long time to digest it.

I've been going back to it frequently ever since it was published (after doing the cover-to-cover thing) and I think I'm just now getting ready to grapple with everything possible with its' system of Realm Magic (after possibly digesting standard Magic, variants thereof and Path/Booik Magic).
That's a very lyric description of what I expect from this book, and yet it also exactly outlines why I'm looking for a shortcut/structure too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
read the symbols, realm and syntactic sections, dig for references to spirits, look at the rest. it takes a lot to absorb some sections and others are easily overlooked such that you find new interpertations and ideas on rereading them.
Thank you.

I'm also curious if there are any parts of the book that deal with concepts of what Magery 'is'.

Last edited by Figleaf23; 08-14-2009 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
I'm interested in:

-language
-Odin/runes
-consciousness
-Carlos Castaneda's concept of 'sorceror'
-the iterative role of consciousness/reality in mutual self-construction
-the notion that language mediates the above
-the notion that the more chthonic the language, the more it may do the above, yea unto to the extent of sustaining/generating 'magic' effects
-using proto-indo-european (PIE) as an example of such cthonic language for game purposes.

In this regard, I'd like to consult the 'hivemind' -- how should I approach reading Thaumatology to take a direct route to building the above as the magical paradigm for a campaign?
As Refplace already said, check out Syntactic and Realm Magic, for sure. Symbol Magic kind of hits on some stuff, too. You might also want to peruse Path/Book magic and just twist the flavoring a bit. Honestly, though, I don't know how many times I've read that book, and I still haven't wholly digested it. You might find a better way to work your magic we're missing.

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
I'm also curious if there are any parts of the book that deal with concepts of what Magery 'is'.
Not so much. There's lots about how you can tweak it and different approaches to magery and that to which it grants access, but no fluffy explination. I won't get into mechanics as I'm sure you know far more about GURPS than do I.
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] A purposive exploration

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That's a very lyric description of what I expect from this book, and yet it also exactly outlines why I'm looking for a shortcut/structure too.
Okay, look at the Magical Languages section starting on p.87. That gives modifiers based on the language you cas the spell in. Your (hypothetical I suppose) Proto Indo-European sounds pretty mundane to me though it probably does count as an Ancient language.

Incidentally, I know what "cthonic" means and I strongly suspect both Ken Hite and Phil Masters do too but that word is not used that I can recall.

No Castenada that I can recall either and that's probably an example of parts of your list that are too individual/idiosyncratic to expect coverage of.

There probably is some talk of conciousness and consensual reality in parts of the book but I consider that no more than arcanobabble and it doesn't tend to stick with me.
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