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Old 01-20-2021, 02:19 PM   #21
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by 5too View Post
Wasn't there errata or another book or something that defined the "magical creatures" that could bypass Force Wall/Dome as needing to be composed entirely of magic (like an elemental), rather than a creature that had magical features (like a leprechaun or a zombie)? I assumed that applied to objects as well - a weapon with an enchantment on it (or a bolt from a Missile spell) couldn't pass, but the fire from a Flame Jet could.
I've never heard of that errata and believe that you have the object rule backwards

A weapon (and a Staff is a weapon) with an Enchantment on it(and even just the Staff Speli is an Enchantment) is _exactly_ what is supposed to go through a Force Wall.

The Flame Jet is probably stopped. It's of magical origin but isn't magical itself. That'd be why you could shoot a Flame Jet from a normal Mana Zone into a No Mana Zone. The FAQ has long said you could do that with a Fireball.
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:34 PM   #22
maximara
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Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The price always assumes Power 15, with higher Power items being priced as if they traded energy for skill (a Power 20 item would therefore be worth +200% of a Power 15 item).
By that logic since Enchant requires Magery 2 and 10 spells then the value of that is already factored in per "For a typical TL3 fantasy setting with plentiful wizardry and shops full of magic items, it should be possible to commission a magic item for about $33 per energy point.

Another thing that is not made clear is do any enchantments or limitations on the Magery of the Enchanter change how the item works? Ie does a Item created by a Day-Aspected Enchanter work at night?

Better yet how do items made by Partially Limited Magery work. More over which rule set do you use for those - what is in Basic Set or what is in Thaumatology as they are not the same?
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:53 PM   #23
maximara
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Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5too View Post
Wasn't there errata or another book or something that defined the "magical creatures" that could bypass Force Wall/Dome as needing to be composed entirely of magic (like an elemental), rather than a creature that had magical features (like a leprechaun or a zombie)? I assumed that applied to objects as well - a weapon with an enchantment on it (or a bolt from a Missile spell) couldn't pass, but the fire from a Flame Jet could.
I've never heard of that errata and believe that you have the object rule backwards

A weapon (and a Staff is a weapon) with an Enchantment on it(and even just the Staff Speli is an Enchantment) is _exactly_ what is supposed to go through a Force Wall.

The Flame Jet is probably stopped. It's of magical origin but isn't magical itself. That'd be why you could shoot a Flame Jet from a normal Mana Zone into a No Mana Zone. The FAQ has long said you could do that with a Fireball.
I think 5too may be thinking of the FAQ regarding "magical" creatures but I know of no official errata on it (there may have been a house rule):

4.1.12 How can we define what a "magical" creature is?

In certain situations, like when determining what can go through a Force Dome, it's important to define exactly what a "magical" creature is. Although there is no single trait that defines it, it's easy to compose a short list of "markers":

*Any being that possesses a racial trait that has the Mana Sensitive limitation (p. B34), regardless of what that trait is. This does not include Magery, as is it a particular Talent and not a mana-sensitive trait.

*Any entity that requires mana to survive. This might be expressed as Dependency on ambient mana, a particular magic item (lich potion, mummy amulet, etc.), or a spell; as a Draining that can only be prevented by feeding on magical energy, often as "magical life force"; as Increased Life Support that calls for a high/very high mana zone; as Maintenance by alchemists or wizards, using the Alchemy skill or magical spells; or as a Weakness to anti-magic (such as a Banish or Dispel Magic spell) or mana-draining effects (such as Mana Damper).

*Anyone currently using a magic spell or an advantage with the Magical limitation (p. 27 of Powers) to assume a "magical" form; e.g., a wizard using the Ethereal Body spell or someone using Alternate Form (Magical) to turn into a werewolf.

*Any creature that's created or summoned with a magic spell or magical ability, regardless of its personal abilities or weaknesses. More precisely, if it's summoned or created, and as soon as the spell duration ends it goes away or back home, it's magical. If it ends up in your plane because someone left the door open, or if you run into it in its own dimension, it's only magical if it meets one of the other conditions on the list. A demon in Hell isn't magical unless it has other magical traits. It's just a big, nasty critter. A summoned demon is magical.

---
The last one is a real nightmare. Force Wall/Dome doesn't so anything against that otherwise normal Brown Bear that the Druid summoned.
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:48 PM   #24
Plane
 
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Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The price always assumes Power 15, with higher Power items being priced as if they traded energy for skill (a Power 20 item would therefore be worth +200% of a Power 15 item).
That sounds like a good guideline, never thought of that.

If sub-15 power items are made possible we might need to reverse engineer that to come up with lower prices, I guess?
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:25 AM   #25
Willy
 
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Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
That sounds like a good guideline, never thought of that.

If sub-15 power items are made possible we might need to reverse engineer that to come up with lower prices, I guess?
A magic Item under Power 15 simply doesn´t work, GURPS Magic P. 17, that can be a serious problem in scenarios with changing mana levels. A effective skill of 15 in both enchanting and the underlying enschantment, is the minimum a enchanter needs to make a Item.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
By that logic since Enchant requires Magery 2 and 10 spells then the value of that is already factored in per "For a typical TL3 fantasy setting with plentiful wizardry and shops full of magic items, it should be possible to commission a magic item for about $33 per energy point.

Better yet how do items made by Partially Limited Magery work. More over which rule set do you use for those - what is in Basic Set or what is in Thaumatology as they are not the same?
The GURPS Magic 4th Ed. gives some insight in the cost and trade of magic items, P. 16 and following, as for Thaumatology, I think this rules are optional.
In 3rd Ed. are 3 Books Magic Items 1 - 3 which add a lot of background knowledge in the trade and manufacturing of magic Items, as well as a lot of magic items for a lot of purposes. I found especially the first 2 books very helpful.

Last edited by Willy; 01-23-2021 at 04:25 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:29 PM   #26
Plane
 
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Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

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Originally Posted by Willy View Post
A magic Item under Power 15 simply doesn´t work, GURPS Magic P. 17, that can be a serious problem in scenarios with changing mana levels. A effective skill of 15 in both enchanting and the underlying enschantment, is the minimum a enchanter needs to make a Item.
In the optional Continuous Mana rules in Thaumatology, High Mana and stuff appears to give a bonus to spells so I imagine it would boost power too, so if it boosts sub-15 power to 15 it should probably work.

That's roughly what T109's "relax the required minimum" approach does except they write guidelines assuming standard non-continuous mana (11-14 requires high, 10 or less requires Very High)
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