Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2021, 11:01 PM   #1
5too
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Default What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

I'm playing with ways to make an "Adventuring Enchanter" template that works from the default Magic rules, and I'm trying to figure out how some of the enchantment spells should work with missile spell enchantments.

The main thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the Speed enchantment, which halves casting time for anything else on the item (per level of Speed). The description for missile spell casting (B240) dictates that you first cast the spell (concentrate for one second then roll), and then spend 1-3 of the next seconds charging it; after which it's ready to fire. What I'm not clear on is how much of this would be considered the "casting" step - what effect would Speed 1 have on this process? Would the first step (roll vs spell level) simply no longer require concentration? Could you cast and do 1 charging step in 1 turn, and charge again and fire it on the next? Would firing it off then still be a separate turn (or would it be turn 1: roll and charge, turn 2: charge and fire)? Is there any effect at all?

Also, is there any chance a wand with a Missile spell enchantment might count as a missile weapon, for enchantments like Quick-Aim? Similarly, are items with missile spell enchantments valid targets for Accuracy, or Puissance; which apply to a generic "weapon"? Would any or all of these apply to a weapon using the Winged Knife enchantment, rather than something like Fireball or Lightning?

Finally, I'd like to verify my understanding of how Power affects the process. The Power enchantment provides a similar benefit to other enchantments on an item that high skill levels provide ordinary spellcasting - it pays some of the fatigue cost for the spell being cast, allowing the caster to cast the spell at a discount. As I understand it, for Missile spells, this process works a bit differently - after a successful casting roll, the energy discount is already counted as applied to the spell, so you can still add your full Magery on top of that. That is, if you have Fireball-15 and Magery 2, your first charging turn you get 1 free energy point, and can add another 2. On the next two turns, you can add another 2 energy points, getting a fireball with a total of 7 dice of damage after putting in 6 FP. Or, at a minimum, you can take just use the free energy point and throw out a 1d fireball for 0 energy. So, following this logic, Power 2 would provide an initial 2 free points of energy (for 2d damage) to each fireball, correct?
5too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 11:10 PM   #2
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

I would say no benefit from Speed as the max die per round of charging is based on Magery.
I give Wands Acc 1 and they can get a Quality bonus. If using that, definitely, but I still like wands being eligible for Accuracy enchantment. Wouldn't give them Puissance though.

A knife seems like a good candidate to have Winged Knife enchantment.
For Missile spells you only get the Magery (or Power in this case) discount once, not per charging step.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 11:35 PM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

Missile enchantments are exceptionally useless for the majority of users, as their Magery determines the effects of the items. For example, let us say that you have Fireball staff with Power-2 (both Power 15). The staff requires 1800 energy points, which represents 5 years of enchantment, all for a staff that would be useless for someone with Magery 0 (and which is useless in low mana regions). No matter how powerful the item, a Magery 0 individual can only add 0 dice per turn, a Magery 1 individual 1 dice per turn, etc.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 01:07 AM   #4
Willy
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

I mostly used on staffs single enchantments, they represent to much work to be endangered in combat, one emeny swordblow and your staff is beyond repairs. When browsing supplements in which the mages carry staffs they needed years to accomplish, I often shake my head. I think that is nice for powerful NPC Mages but not for PCs who are dungeon delving and so on.

The winged knife, dancing sword is an exeption, very useful, just take a high quality or better weapon before enchanting. Putting month of work into a heap of junk is a waste by itself. Not to mention the higher chance of breaking... .

A mean trick is to use dedicated powerstones to a wand of lightning / fireball and so on, even a 5 point stone gives anybody with magery the oppertunity to fire 15 1d6 fireballs. Thatīs the gun of magic realms. Of coures reloading is long. But give each of your apprentices one and you are doubling your own firepower.
Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 01:22 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

The primary issue for any enchanted item is that they are not usually worth the effort to create because they are unrealistically cheap. An enchanter must have Magery 2 and a minimum of eleven spells, one of them a VH spell, and a minimum of the VH spell and another spell must be at 15. An IQ 12 individual would need to spend 29 CP on skills in order to support Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable), when they would be better off ignoring their Magery and spending their time learning the skills required to become a bard, as 20 CP would give an IQ 12 individual Literature-14, Musical Instrument-12, and Singing-12, allowing them to sustain Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable) with less effort and less danger.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 02:11 AM   #6
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Missile enchantments are exceptionally useless for the majority of users, as their Magery determines the effects of the items. For example, let us say that you have Fireball staff with Power-2 (both Power 15). The staff requires 1800 energy points, which represents 5 years of enchantment, all for a staff that would be useless for someone with Magery 0 (and which is useless in low mana regions). No matter how powerful the item, a Magery 0 individual can only add 0 dice per turn, a Magery 1 individual 1 dice per turn, etc.
IMHO this is a misunderstanding of how enchantment works. One of the problems is all the spells in Magic are slight alterations of classic spells which were written up when Magery 1 was the lowest a Mage could be so the problem of Magery o (other then a house rule) never came up.

"An itemís Power equals the casterís effective skill with either the Enchant spell or the spell contained in the item Ė whichever is lower."

From this it follows that since casterís effective skill includes their Magery bonus the Magery limits are also determined by the Magery of the enchanter not the user.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links. Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 02:35 AM   #7
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The primary issue for any enchanted item is that they are not usually worth the effort to create because they are unrealistically cheap. An enchanter must have Magery 2 and a minimum of eleven spells, one of them a VH spell, and a minimum of the VH spell and another spell must be at 15. An IQ 12 individual would need to spend 29 CP on skills in order to support Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable), when they would be better off ignoring their Magery and spending their time learning the skills required to become a bard, as 20 CP would give an IQ 12 individual Literature-14, Musical Instrument-12, and Singing-12, allowing them to sustain Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable) with less effort and less danger.
Enchanters would generally be in the service to the ruling elite - not only as a status symbol but to provide the army with magic weapons.

More over the enchanter is able to make magic items with some (or perhaps all) of the 10 spells then needed to get to learn Enchant so it isn't like they are a one trick pony. Never mind that I doubt a IQ 12 (above average) mage would bother with enchantment simple because it would require a lot of their time.

Look at a 4e version of Raphael Holyoak.

Yes he has IQ 14 (Exceptional) and Magery 3 but that means for just 2 CP he can become an enchanter. He has potentially 31 spells (this is not counting the two that are only 14) he can turn into magic items.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links. Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 06:59 AM   #8
5too
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

The idea here is to explore why a mage who's already committed to adventuring (the "Adventuring Enchanter") might go to the trouble to create a fireball wand to use *themselves* - particularly if they have unrestricted Magery and can already cast it unassisted! The Power enchantment is one particular reason, granting them a damage bonus; Speed, if it applies, would be an even more compelling one - you'd double the damage output compared to a regular caster! The Accuracy enchantment, Quick-Aim, etc. would also be very useful, *if* they apply. I agree with Refplace that Puissance doesn't really make sense.

So the consensus is that Speed has no effect on Missile enchantments? Are there other enchantments, tools, or tricks that would give the enchanter using such a wand an edge? Is there a different kind of spell (the cloud or storm spells, perhaps) that would make more sense to use as a base enchantment? I'm not really worried about the energy cost overmuch - Thaumatology has several ways to address that, particularly for an adventurer!

I'm doing this with an eye towards Dungeon Fantasy power levels - 250 CP plus disadvantages - so there's a little room to play with! IQ 14+, Magery 2-4 (or more), etc.

Last edited by 5too; 01-20-2021 at 08:00 AM.
5too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 07:40 AM   #9
5too
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

Also, Refplace, you only give wands an accuracy of 1 for missile spells? Don't innate attacks start with an accuracy of 3? I figured having a stick to point with would at least keep it at that level..

Last edited by 5too; 01-20-2021 at 07:44 AM.
5too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 08:12 AM   #10
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

"Certain spells always require a specific ritual. Such requirements override the rules above [about rituals]. For instance, high skill has no effect on [...] the time to cast Missile spells." ([i]GURPS Magic, p. 9)

So Missile spells can't have reduced casting time, which makes sense. Therefore, the Speed spell will have no effect on a Missile spell enchanted into an item. But if you make a wand with a Regular or Area spell, Speed will be useful.

The Accuracy spell doesn't apply, because it is a weapon enchantment, and "the subject of any of these spells must be a weapon..." (p. 62). I'm certain this means a weapon in the mundane sense, not "stick that lets you shoot fireballs." This goes for Quick-Aim and all the other weapon enchantments.

As you have already seen, the Power spell is the best thing to add to this kind of wand for the wizard's own use.

A Limit enchantment might be useful to make sure that only the wizard who created the wand can use it.
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.