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Old 01-18-2021, 06:10 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc View Post
Finally, we've found something Caithness, Megalos, and al-Wazif will all agree on: Temporary truce until we get rid of those bird guys.
Please. This is something that might make the Dwarves and Elves end their 2000-year grudge.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:23 PM   #42
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Finally, we've found something Caithness, Megalos, and al-Wazif will all agree on: Temporary truce until we get rid of those bird guys.
Alerion and his people know what kind of mess they are in, they're still pirates at heart, but, as I said above, they are seeking friendly relations first, a typical pirate strategy. They have made overtures to the Elves of the Great Forest, ai-Wazif, and Caithness. They tried diplomacy with the Hospitalers, which went predictably. They are raiding in Meglos, although having found the Hospitalers are less than universally loved, they are seeing if they might gain allies or at least business partners there.

I've simply described the Hawkfolk's traditional style of warfare.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:24 PM   #43
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Please. This is something that might make the Dwarves and Elves end their 2000-year grudge.
The Hawkfolk haven't met Dwarves yet.

By the way, the Hawkfolks going to war for profit is hardly abnormal on Yrth, or in medieval Europe for that matter. The Hawkfolk are far more upfront about it and in many ways less vicious. Although they do love frustrating and aggravating their foes.
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Old 01-19-2021, 02:53 AM   #44
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I think the humiliation part is a bigger issue than the raiding itself.

The empire being unable to fully retaliate against the hawkmen or even protect themselves decently (hawkmen dropping wasp nests on castles insults the purpose of the walls, f.ex.) is a complete insult to the legitimacy of the rulers.

If the rulers can't persuade their people that they can keep hawkmen from, perhaps quite literally, crapping on them they would find pretenders to the throne that suggesting 'extreme measures' gaining support.

If the hawkmen are almost untouchable when raiding or harassing from the skies then the nearby nations will band together to burn down their homes. I agree with Gold and TGLS, the other nations would band together to wipe out the empire and enslave/kill the hawkmen. Nothing unites people quite like a mutual enemy, and everything the hawkmen seem to be up to is setting them up to frustrate both rulers and their people.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:29 AM   #45
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I think the humiliation part is a bigger issue than the raiding itself.
Not to mention the body horror aspect, if that becomes widely discovered: These alien invaders want to turn normal people into something other - Non-Human, Non-Elf, what have you. A lower animal kingdom for the few who are more scientifically-minded. This is some Mars Needs Women-level Atomic Horror type violation right here. Or Innsmouth Breeding Camp-level violation if you want to go Lovecraft. The squick factor cannot be overstated.
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Old 01-19-2021, 01:40 PM   #46
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I think the humiliation part is a bigger issue than the raiding itself.

The empire being unable to fully retaliate against the hawkmen or even protect themselves decently (hawkmen dropping wasp nests on castles insults the purpose of the walls, f.ex.) is a complete insult to the legitimacy of the rulers.

If the rulers can't persuade their people that they can keep hawkmen from, perhaps quite literally, crapping on them they would find pretenders to the throne that suggesting 'extreme measures' gaining support.

If the hawkmen are almost untouchable when raiding or harassing from the skies then the nearby nations will band together to burn down their homes. I agree with Gold and TGLS, the other nations would band together to wipe out the empire and enslave/kill the hawkmen. Nothing unites people quite like a mutual enemy, and everything the hawkmen seem to be up to is setting them up to frustrate both rulers and their people.
You do know that most of what I wrote was lifted with minor modifications from real world warfare. Even the bit with the cattle came from an angry prince using a king's sacred cows as ammunition in a catapult.
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:51 PM   #47
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The alchemist/physicians that perform the work of changing people use magic to figure it out.
There are some helpful spells, in GURPS Banestorm P. 25 for this purpose.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:40 AM   #48
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You do know that most of what I wrote was lifted with minor modifications from real world warfare. Even the bit with the cattle came from an angry prince using a king's sacred cows as ammunition in a catapult.
Chucking someone's sacred cows (especially if you mean it in a religious meaning) is going to **** of those people immensely and might well lead to all out war, I'm not sure what your point is here? Sure that might not cause a coalition to form, however -

-Arguably dropping junk inside castle walls while being untouchable up in the skies is even worse though. Like I said, the legitimacy of the counts/dukes/kings is dependent on being able to at least create a slightly convincing facade of being able to protect their subjects. Unless they figure out a way to pluck the hawkmen from the skies they'll basically be forced to declare war as soon as the Hawkmen raids and deliberate attempts at humiliation become known. If they can't do it alone they'll try to create a coalition.

Either way, whomever is suffering humiliation from the hawkmen will be forced to have open hostilities, and even those who do not current suffer humiliation would feel greatly endangerd if they do not have any decent way of dealing with getting targeted. I think many empires would call the hawkmen fallen foul angels who are trying to rule the world. ...and when the human alchemical transformation and mindrape inevitably becomes known people would probably start believing their own propaganda.

Even against the Hordes in eastern Europe the rulers could at least try to convince people that the castle walls would keep them safe. No such illusion when people get wasp-nests dropped through the castle roofs.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:45 PM   #49
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So, how would the Hawkmen prevent Megalan mage from retaliating? A magician with Summon Air Elemental-15 and 100 willing ceremonial assistants could summon a 1,000 CP monstrosity in 2d+5 minutes. Air elementals are not mana dependent, so they can follow the Hawkmen anywhere.
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:26 PM   #50
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So, how would the Hawkmen prevent Megalan mage from retaliating? A magician with Summon Air Elemental-15 and 100 willing ceremonial assistants could summon a 1,000 CP monstrosity in 2d+5 minutes. Air elementals are not mana dependent, so they can follow the Hawkmen anywhere.
I suppose they'd have their own mages casting counter charms. But I never claimed the Hawkfolk were invulnerable, just that they realize they can fly and this has advantages. Remember, they were driven off their world because of a violent attack. The Hawkfolk prefer to stay out of arrow range, this is because they know they can be killed. They prefer to avoid close combat because damage to their wings can ground them.

I picked a few tactics out of ancient, Classical, and medieval warfare to illustrate typical Hawkfolk tactics. Real medieval warfare was normally for-profit and anything but chivalrous. The Hawkfolks aren't saints, but they aren't any more evil than the societies of Yrth. We're used to the cruelties of Yrth's societies. The far less murderous tactics of the Hawkfolk only seem shocking. Read up on real medieval warfare in Europe, Asia, Africa, or the Americas, The Hawkfolk don't leave mountains of skulls, sell whole peoples into slavery, sacrifice 20,000 in a day to their gods, kill anyone that annoys them or maintain the right to rape any peasant girl, woman, or boy they see. Respectable Medieval societies were far worst than the Hawkfolk.
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