Latter-Day Saints in Yrth

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

That obviously depends on what being a "follower of Jesus" implies. It would include as a natural course accepting certain claims made about him which includes his claim to divinity within a context assuming the truthfulness of the Torah, which leads to Trinitarianism. It also means accepting the Death, and the Resurrection. In fact, just read the Nicene Creed. It also means readjusting your life to the behavior required by such conclusions.

Just like just fighting beside the Old Pretender doesn't make you a Jacobite if you do not accept his title to the British throne. It makes you an ally.

Now for the record, I think Mormons will be treated more or less as Christians When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder. But that is not the point. The point is that you don't become a Christian just by saying you are.

I don't see why everyone gets to pick and choose what I see as the important stuff, but gets hung up on whether or not his parentage is up to the task or what magic he performed.
Shouldn't the important stuff be what he supposedly said?
There are so many believers that don't alter their behavior based on what they claim to believe let alone what their official doctrine says, that I have to reject that as a necessary component of any religion.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Well you are being ARGUMENTative in a sense; you are inviting philosophical argument. What you are not being is QUARRELSOME.

Right.

And since you know my views on religious matters, Flyn, you know that I'm not saying that 'not Christian' = wrongbadreligion.


But back to the main topic, whatever any of us living in the real world today may think of Mormons today claiming to be a 'Christian' church, it seems very likely that they would be regarded with implacable hostility by the Yrthian Church.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Atheism doesn't fit as it's defined rather simply as disbelief in gods.

I still find the idea of a person that believes in Christ's words not a Christian to be silly. It's in the name after all.

There are people that follow the supposed words of Jesus, but do not believe in any physics bending or supernatural stuff. They aren't Christians?

Nope. If they don't believe in supernatural stuff they certainly don't believe in a lot of his words like "Arise take up thy bed and walk." As for the strictly moral pronouncements, you can accept most of them and hold to almost any metaphysical proposition so it doesn't quite cut it.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

...
Now for the record, I think Mormons will be treated more or less as Christians When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder. But that is not the point. The point is that you don't become a Christian just by saying you are.

Are you one of those exclusive salvationists that believe only belief in Jesus gets one into heaven, not being a good person?
If not, then what difference does what you believed in life make in the afterlife.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Right.

And since you know my views on religious matters, Flyn, you know that I'm not saying that 'not Christian' = wrongbadreligion.


But back to the main topic, whatever any of us living in the real world today may think of Mormons today claiming to be a 'Christian' church, it seems very likely that they would be regarded with implacable hostility by the Yrthian Church.

Undoubtably. Certainly in Megalos which is rather insistent.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Nope. If they don't believe in supernatural stuff they certainly don't believe in a lot of his words like "Arise take up thy bed and walk." As for the strictly moral pronouncements, you can accept most of them and hold to almost any metaphysical proposition so it doesn't quite cut it.

That presupposes that all the words attributed to him in the Bible are what he actually said. No one follows the Bible as it is written, so why not pick and choose with the red text too?

But the Bible has non believers doing magic, so even that isn't really proof of anything. So its lack shouldn't negate wisdom.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Satan can be argued to be a co-god in most believers' stances I've come across, official doctrine or not.

Voodoun has loas, so they don't fit?
Many Muslims believe in Jinn that are powerful enough to count as gods to most other religions.

Voudoun is not Christian, no. But it contains syncretic elements and many people practice it alongside Christianity.

If you should happen to travel in some of my favorite parts of the world, I urge you not to tell Muslims living in said countries that their belief in jinn, which is mandated by their religion, is the equivalent of polytheism-- which is expressly forbidden.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Right.

And since you know my views on religious matters, Flyn, you know that I'm not saying that 'not Christian' = wrongbadreligion.


But back to the main topic, whatever any of us living in the real world today may think of Mormons today claiming to be a 'Christian' church, it seems very likely that they would be regarded with implacable hostility by the Yrthian Church.

Well, after more than a few years of near constant schisming, none of the religions should look anything like what we call the known sects. But the setting presupposes that impossibility as a given.
So having Mormons somehow getting along in a not, "kill them all now, and let Satan sort them out later" should make as much probability sense.
In my opinion, etc.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Atheism doesn't fit as it's defined rather simply as disbelief in gods.

I still find the idea of a person that believes in Christ's words not a Christian to be silly. It's in the name after all.

There are people that follow the supposed words of Jesus, but do not believe in any physics bending or supernatural stuff. They aren't Christians?

Christ is a title. It means something along the lines of "messiah," so saying you believe in Christ's words means you accept that he was the messiah with all the supernatural baggage that comes with it. If you just follow the philosophical teachings of Jesus ("love thy neighbor" and all that) without believing in the supernatural stuff, maybe you are a Jesusian rather than a Christian.

That being said, I really have no idea if the Mormons think Jesus was a Messiah or not.

Luke

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Voudoun is not Christian, no. But it contains syncretic elements and many people practice it alongside Christianity.

If you should happen to travel in some of my favorite parts of the world, I urge you not to tell Muslims living in said countries that their belief in jinn, which is mandated by their religion, is the equivalent of polytheism-- which is expressly forbidden.

I only discuss religion with people open minded enough to not get violent, which includes members of every religion and non-religious atheists as well.