09-12-2014, 05:00 PM | #31 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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Unfortunately there really aren't any rules (that I'm aware of) for manufacturing at TL5+, but you can start with the rules in Low Tech Companion 3: Daily Life and Economics beginning on p. 22. The big difference at TL5+ is that you probably aren't starting with raw materials most of the time, but are able to use some or all prefabricated components. You'll need to figure out what "engine parts" cost per lb. Maybe $5/lb for steam engines and $10/lb for internal combustion engines. That way you can save a little money on materials by machining your own from metal stock, but you'll have higher labor costs, which seems about right. Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-12-2014 at 06:35 PM. |
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09-12-2014, 09:16 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: St-Basile-Le-Grand, Qc
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
No I know... i took a generic exemple for calculate the Invention rule for realistic purpose but in my actual campaign, my players are heros, not mundane people. The PC engineer is from Britannica-6 and he's trap in Yrth and want to build a motor for a boat and in my other campaign, we are in a WWII universe trying to build a better motor. We play realistic but it include some fantastic elements.. anyway, for now I'm more preoccupy about the +4 easy skill vs mundane skill you raised earlier.
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09-13-2014, 01:28 AM | #33 | |||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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For a specific example of this sort of thing as it applies to firearms see the Non-Combat bonuses box on GURPS Tactical Shooting p. 9. Note that none of these give bonuses for not being chased by zombies, or anything of the sort, but rather give bonuses for being in a low stakes situation with few variables and a controlled environment. Some people seem to think this means that you should be able to say "My character is a robot with Unfazeable and he doesn't care if zombies are chasing him, therefore he always gets +4 to +10 to everything he does for free!" This doesn't make a lot of sense, because most of the reason you get that bonus isn't because you are afraid of zombies, it's because you are working in an environment that doesn't have chaotic completely unpredictable dangerous stuff happening that you need to be able to react to, and where if you accidentally drop something on the ground you can just pick it up without having to make a bunch of Change Posture maneuvers while a orc brains you with his axe. A robot repairing the same problems with cars everyday in a well organized, well lit, and well appointed garage in a quiet business park is going to benefit from the predictable task and environment the same as a person. The robot shouldn't get to treat fixing a car in a mud pit, at dusk, while being mortared, as "easy" just because it's "not scared of mortars" because that doesn't have anything to do with most of the ways mud, shrapnel, and dusk aren't like that quiet garage. Easy tasks are easy, because generally all of: the consequences of mistakes are correctable, the environment is totally controlled and perfectly adequate, there are no variables that make the task impossible to predict, and there are no massive distractions that make it impossible to fully concentrate on it, are true. Inventing something wholly new, has mistakes with large uncorrectable consequences (loss of staggeringly huge sums of money; lab explosions) and the entire project is a series of totally unknown variables. Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-13-2014 at 01:33 AM. |
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09-13-2014, 03:39 PM | #34 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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Design a device that does X is one thing. Design a device that does X well and reliably is quie another thing. |
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09-15-2014, 04:54 PM | #35 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
For a real case see The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy: A Design and Construction History, John Alden, 1979. It took the USN about 25 years to produce a good, powerful, reliable diesel engine for submarines -- even when they had examples of German diesels quite good for their time.
They managed it by getting the railroads to fund much of the development -- hence the rapid disappearance of steam engines and their replacement by diesel electrics postwar in the USA. A brilliant administrative/social maneuver compensating for poor government funding. Last edited by fredtheobviouspseudonym; 09-15-2014 at 05:03 PM. |
09-15-2014, 11:07 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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It's kind of like the difference between knowing how to get elected and knowing how to be a useful politician. |
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09-16-2014, 12:50 AM | #37 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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E.g. making software seems to be an Invention job (B473). So is creation of new custom bioroid/AI/engine/etc. designs. |
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09-16-2014, 01:07 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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I'm good at my admin job. really good. I hate performance appraisals, because I'm not so good at "showing my work." Similar situations apply to most jobs that have to answer to some kind of boss or performance appraisal process. In the case of a R&D tech, being seen to be working is presumably difficult to fake, so the job-keeping roll rightly belongs with the relevant invention skill. Political work seems to be an area that GURPS has explicitly called out as requiring different skills depending on whether getting re-elected (their "performance appraisal") or doing an actual job-related task. But logically, it can't be the only one, unless SJG for some reason is holding a grudge against politicians. |
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09-16-2014, 05:13 AM | #39 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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I'm currently working as a (junior) programmer and the criteria of doing the job OK is whether (a) the new requested feature works as requested and (b) does so without bugs/gross resource-hogging/exploit holes/etc. Other programmers would occasionally read and comment on the code, but that's a matter of increasing my skills, not affecting efficiency assessment or anything like that. Quote:
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09-16-2014, 07:23 PM | #40 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Realistic Invention Rule
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