magic tech or steam punk?

gfrobbin84 · 05-04-2014, 06:09 PM

Are there any resources that talk about magic tech or steam punk worlds or games especially official gurps material on the genera?

I have been working on a semi modern world but struggling with trying to keep guns from overshadowing muscle powered weapons without making guns totally useless or overly expensive. As if muscle is all around better why even have guns and if you make guns and ammo super expensive why have them or what to do once adventuring PCs have so much money it doesn't matter.

So I decided to just go a magical steam punk route for tech and replace guns with "high tech" bows and crossbows.

aesir23 · 05-04-2014, 06:24 PM

GURPS Steampunk is a good place to start, although it is 3rd edition.

Also in 3rd Edition, GURPS Technomancer is a magictech setting.

Dalillama · 05-04-2014, 06:27 PM

There's GURPS SteamPunk and Steam Tech, they're 3e but can be adapted pretty well. I'm not certain I fully understand your difficulty with guns vs muscle powered weapons, though. Most of the steampunk material that I'm familiar with, including the ones with magic in, have a wide variety of guns, based on gunpowder or more exotic modes of propulsion, with swords and knives as mostly sidearms. If you're looking for reasons to use more muscle powered weapons, take shameless advantage of another classic steampunk trope:hydrogen airships. Shooting off guns aboard one can be rather ill-advised, making muscle powered weapons preferable.
EDIT: Magic Items 3 has some potentially useful notes on steampunk enchantments. Same caveats apply.

whswhs · 05-04-2014, 06:29 PM

Take a look at the GURPS Fantasy-Tech supplement, which offers some radical extensions of various low-tech weapons. It may inspire some creative ideas.

Bill Stoddard

gfrobbin84 · 05-04-2014, 06:35 PM

Thank you so much.

And Dalillama my problem was I am wanting TL 7 level of tech cars and everything and by then guns are so advanced they are getting deadly accurate and very high dmg and totally overshadow bows and crossbows, those are the muscle powered things I want to keep viable it is easier to keep melee viable. Also it is going to be like a high tech fantasy world like D&D but with cars and planes and a mega city that survived a major world war but has kept behind it's walls for generations but now is exploring the dangerous world outside it's walls once again.

Gedrin · 05-04-2014, 06:38 PM

I think my favorite Steam flavored magi-tech universe is Iron Kingdoms. While not GURPS, you could probably look at them and get some ideas for how to fit things together.

If you want TL-7 with viable swords, I'd suggest a magi-tech innovation that provides Missile Shield or similar at relatively low cost. Maybe a cheap version that can deflect X bullets, but only bullets.

gfrobbin84 · 05-04-2014, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedrin

I think my favorite Steam flavored magi-tech universe is Iron Kingdoms. While not GURPS, you could probably look at them and get some ideas for how to fit things together.

If you want TL-7 with viable swords, I'd suggest a magi-tech innovation that provides Missile Shield or similar at relatively low cost. Maybe a cheap version that can deflect X bullets, but only bullets.

I want tech 7 without guns gonna have fancy crossbows still not the ROF or damage of guns but better then tech 3-4 ones.

Propjock · 05-04-2014, 06:48 PM

You could always pick and choose what a TL6+1 or TL 5+2 society might have in terms of specific gadgets or technologies. After all, it is an alternate timeline and not our timeline. I haven't had much issue with guns or melee weapons in my steampunk games. Admittedly bows and crossbows don't come into play very much. They're just not sensibly portable or concealable in an urban setting where much of my players have spent their time. I also don't mind gun play. The stakes are higher so it really forces people to decide if that's where they want to go.

Of course, for some encounters (like between aristocrats) you could have it be "unsportsmanlike" to use a gun although that's certainly situational. Near silent shooting might be another situation where old school projectiles could work better. I guess I don't fully understand the prohibition on fire arms if you're going to take a society that far into modern times.

Gedrin · 05-04-2014, 07:35 PM

You might try:

Because <Explanation/> gunpowder is comparatively expensive to manufacture. This makes it technically possible to have automatic weapons, but impractical in most situations. Of course, some people might still have them for "money is no object" tasking, like spec ops.

Alternatively, don't have cars. Have something else that fills the same role, but doesn't require the advanced machine tools and replaceable parts. Magic carriages, cable cars or some such.

The problem is that once you have gunpowder and the machine tools needed to produce an automobile, automatic weapons are just a matter of motivation. Of course, you might have a society that lacks the motivation to make better weapons, but those generally aren't where "adventures" happen.

Another option is for the advanced tech to be an artifact of lost science. Perhaps their inventor created them and the process was lost with his death. In this scenario, you need the advanced tech to be "black box", because of reasons already mentioned. If they're reliable, but are so rare no one wants to risk tampering with them, you might get away with that for a while.

Propjock · 05-04-2014, 07:54 PM

Or, as an extension to my previous reply, various takes on "It's Just Not Done" and leave it at that. If you don't focus on elaborate explanations for the presence or absence of something then I think most groups would just take that as the cannon and go with it. Crap, I had space travel in a steampunk game and no one spent game after game wondering why we just didn't nuke things from orbit. :)

Sure we could wage nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare, but we do not (for the most part). Pretty much all nations have fire arms technology and procurement but most people (especially non-U.S.) just don't have easy access to it. People could make super sonic transports, go to the moon more often, and have build more flying cars. It's just not high on the priorities of many places. I'm separating the capability of doing something and actually doing it.

05-04-2014, 06:09 PM	#1
gfrobbin84 Join Date: Nov 2013	magic tech or steam punk? Are there any resources that talk about magic tech or steam punk worlds or games especially official gurps material on the genera? I have been working on a semi modern world but struggling with trying to keep guns from overshadowing muscle powered weapons without making guns totally useless or overly expensive. As if muscle is all around better why even have guns and if you make guns and ammo super expensive why have them or what to do once adventuring PCs have so much money it doesn't matter. So I decided to just go a magical steam punk route for tech and replace guns with "high tech" bows and crossbows.

05-04-2014, 06:24 PM	#2
aesir23 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vermont	Re: magic tech or steam punk? GURPS Steampunk is a good place to start, although it is 3rd edition. Also in 3rd Edition, GURPS Technomancer is a magictech setting. __________________ My ongoing thread of GURPS versions of DC Comics characters.

05-04-2014, 06:27 PM	#3
Dalillama Join Date: Nov 2004	Re: magic tech or steam punk? There's GURPS SteamPunk and Steam Tech, they're 3e but can be adapted pretty well. I'm not certain I fully understand your difficulty with guns vs muscle powered weapons, though. Most of the steampunk material that I'm familiar with, including the ones with magic in, have a wide variety of guns, based on gunpowder or more exotic modes of propulsion, with swords and knives as mostly sidearms. If you're looking for reasons to use more muscle powered weapons, take shameless advantage of another classic steampunk trope:hydrogen airships. Shooting off guns aboard one can be rather ill-advised, making muscle powered weapons preferable. EDIT: Magic Items 3 has some potentially useful notes on steampunk enchantments. Same caveats apply.

05-04-2014, 06:29 PM	#4
whswhs Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS	Re: magic tech or steam punk? Take a look at the GURPS Fantasy-Tech supplement, which offers some radical extensions of various low-tech weapons. It may inspire some creative ideas. Bill Stoddard

05-04-2014, 06:35 PM	#5
gfrobbin84 Join Date: Nov 2013	Re: magic tech or steam punk? Thank you so much. And Dalillama my problem was I am wanting TL 7 level of tech cars and everything and by then guns are so advanced they are getting deadly accurate and very high dmg and totally overshadow bows and crossbows, those are the muscle powered things I want to keep viable it is easier to keep melee viable. Also it is going to be like a high tech fantasy world like D&D but with cars and planes and a mega city that survived a major world war but has kept behind it's walls for generations but now is exploring the dangerous world outside it's walls once again.

05-04-2014, 06:38 PM	#6
Gedrin Join Date: Jul 2007	Re: magic tech or steam punk? I think my favorite Steam flavored magi-tech universe is Iron Kingdoms. While not GURPS, you could probably look at them and get some ideas for how to fit things together. If you want TL-7 with viable swords, I'd suggest a magi-tech innovation that provides Missile Shield or similar at relatively low cost. Maybe a cheap version that can deflect X bullets, but only bullets.

05-04-2014, 06:48 PM	#8
Propjock Join Date: Mar 2012	Re: magic tech or steam punk? You could always pick and choose what a TL6+1 or TL 5+2 society might have in terms of specific gadgets or technologies. After all, it is an alternate timeline and not our timeline. I haven't had much issue with guns or melee weapons in my steampunk games. Admittedly bows and crossbows don't come into play very much. They're just not sensibly portable or concealable in an urban setting where much of my players have spent their time. I also don't mind gun play. The stakes are higher so it really forces people to decide if that's where they want to go. Of course, for some encounters (like between aristocrats) you could have it be "unsportsmanlike" to use a gun although that's certainly situational. Near silent shooting might be another situation where old school projectiles could work better. I guess I don't fully understand the prohibition on fire arms if you're going to take a society that far into modern times.

05-04-2014, 07:35 PM	#9
Gedrin Join Date: Jul 2007	Re: magic tech or steam punk? You might try: Because <Explanation/> gunpowder is comparatively expensive to manufacture. This makes it technically possible to have automatic weapons, but impractical in most situations. Of course, some people might still have them for "money is no object" tasking, like spec ops. Alternatively, don't have cars. Have something else that fills the same role, but doesn't require the advanced machine tools and replaceable parts. Magic carriages, cable cars or some such. The problem is that once you have gunpowder and the machine tools needed to produce an automobile, automatic weapons are just a matter of motivation. Of course, you might have a society that lacks the motivation to make better weapons, but those generally aren't where "adventures" happen. Another option is for the advanced tech to be an artifact of lost science. Perhaps their inventor created them and the process was lost with his death. In this scenario, you need the advanced tech to be "black box", because of reasons already mentioned. If they're reliable, but are so rare no one wants to risk tampering with them, you might get away with that for a while.

05-04-2014, 07:54 PM	#10
Propjock Join Date: Mar 2012	Re: magic tech or steam punk? Or, as an extension to my previous reply, various takes on "It's Just Not Done" and leave it at that. If you don't focus on elaborate explanations for the presence or absence of something then I think most groups would just take that as the cannon and go with it. Crap, I had space travel in a steampunk game and no one spent game after game wondering why we just didn't nuke things from orbit. :) Sure we could wage nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare, but we do not (for the most part). Pretty much all nations have fire arms technology and procurement but most people (especially non-U.S.) just don't have easy access to it. People could make super sonic transports, go to the moon more often, and have build more flying cars. It's just not high on the priorities of many places. I'm separating the capability of doing something and actually doing it.