Blasphemous Abomination or Really Kinda Kewl? - Merging Roma Arcana and Banestorm

[David Johansen]

Why not just drop another continent onto Yrth? Suppose caravan to Ein Arris and Bane Storm and Roma Arcanna are all on the same planet. It lets you lift the traditional fantasy races right into Roma Arcanna and borrow any Bane Storm elements you like while allowing you to leave the crusade / jihad elements of Yttarria on Yttarria.

[Fwibos]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

Why not just drop another continent onto Yrth? Suppose caravan to Ein Arris and Bane Storm and Roma Arcanna are all on the same planet. It lets you lift the traditional fantasy races right into Roma Arcanna and borrow any Bane Storm elements you like while allowing you to leave the crusade / jihad elements of Yttarria on Yttarria.

I'd do something like this. I'd add Roman cults and maybe a roman nation secluded enough to be defensable against Megalos. I would definitely port the magic - it's far more interesting than Yrth magic (I share Mr. Knutsen's view, if not his vehemence).

[Tzeentch]

Well, it's not clear how visible Christianity was in the Roma Arcana period. Probably just an unpopular fringe religion alongside many others (albeit one with more surviving documentation and tales). You could keep them around in any Banestormed version or drop them.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Tzeentch

Well, it's not clear how visible Christianity was in the Roma Arcana period. Probably just an unpopular fringe religion alongside many others (albeit one with more surviving documentation and tales). You could keep them around in any Banestormed version or drop them.

It's not clear to me how useful historically accurate Early Christianity would be for roleplaying. The stuff that does get borrowed from "The Church" i.e. behavior of Priests and Bishops and Friar Tuck and the moral code of Paladins is all from a much later period (if not totally made up).

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Tzeentch

Well, it's not clear how visible Christianity was in the Roma Arcana period. Probably just an unpopular fringe religion alongside many others (albeit one with more surviving documentation and tales). You could keep them around in any Banestormed version or drop them.

Christianity could be a sub-sect of Judaism, in which case it can get grandfathered into the clause that exempts Jews from sacrifising to the Cult of the Imperial Genius, due to the Roman tradition of respecting cultures perceived to be more ancient than their own.

Also, I'm not sure how much Yrth "cares" about the Christianity vs Islam conflict. It seems to me that compared to my Ärth setting, religion is in no way meant to be a theme - one of the themes - of the setting, so it can be downplayed almost all the time, if the GM feels like it. Thus, if there is a problem, it's that some people are uncomfortable with the mere presence of real-world religions. Whcih is a deeply strange concept that I've encountered a few times before (interestingly, always in USAns or at least people who come across as being culturally North American).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

. Whcih is a deeply strange concept that I've encountered a few times before (interestingly, always in USAns or at least people who come across as being culturally North American).

It [probably has to do with the greater numbers of people in the USA to whom religion is living and significant thing either positvely or negatively.

People who hold Religion either generally or thier specific faith in a positive light can either object to trivialization of something important, assigning fantasy Christianity negative traits for roleplaying purposes or the fantasy religion being of the wrong "flavor" i.e. highly institutionalized Catholicism rather then a personalized evangelical faith.

To people whose interactions with real world religions tend to be significantly negative RW religions are about as welcome as roleplaying out telephone sales calls.

Abstracted and personally non-sigificant religions tend to avoid these problems.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

People who hold Religion either generally or thier specific faith in a positive light can either object to trivialization of something important, assigning fantasy Christianity negative traits for roleplaying purposes or the fantasy religion being of the wrong "flavor" i.e. highly institutionalized Catholicism rather then a personalized evangelical faith.

I can see where you're coming from, though I haven't really encountered that problem personally. I've played in mixed groups of Christians (different flavours), Muslims, Jews, agnostics and atheists. I'm a practising (left-wing) Catholic myself.

The "worst insult" I've seen was in an English group with an cute anti-Catholic impetus that could have come directly out of a 16th century Protestant pamphlet complete with sexually insatiable pope and ubiquitous corruption. While it was kind of weird to see that the GM (and some players) still felt strongly enough about the topic to make it a main topic in what was actually a pirate campaign, I wasn't really phased by the general flavour provided by a corrupt Catholic church.

I would, however, have a problem to play a member of one of the hardline intolerant orders in Yrth (like the Hospitallers) in any way other than to redeem such a character. So, I can see where the OP is coming from. I guess playing in a world where all the faithful were despicable characters would be even worse for myself, but this side of His Dark Materials that is fairly rare.

Erm, sorry for going repeatedly going off-topic, Hero of Canton.

As for dropping a Roman nation into Ytarria, I wouldn't do that. You'd still have to make a lot of adjustments and much of the material in Banestorm wouldn't be that useful anymore. Also you wouldn't avoid any Christianity/Islam issues, unless your intention is to make them work together against the idolatrous pagans. Using another continent is probably a better idea if you want to keep the backdoor open to use Banestorm pretty much as written. Limited contact would not upset the Banestorm nations too much. Navigation between the continents should be fiendishly difficult, though. The monotheistists are a pretty proselytising bunch and wouldn't be deterred just by long sea travel and a powerful pagan state.

[Delvidian]

I had a negative reaction to the "real religions" aspect of Banestorm when I first picked it up, though I loved everything else about the setting. I decided to give it a go more or less as written but to downplay any religious themes. I think this is easier if your campaign isn't about political intrigue. Mine was more about exploring the different regions of the world acquiring artifacts. I've since transitioned it into a Spelljammer Banestorm campaign, but that's a different story!

Before you take on the huge job of retrofitting the setting, I recommend first considering on a more micro level what kind of campaign you want. It is low fantasy or high? High character points or low? Dungeon delving or political intrigue? The issue of religion may end up not being a big deal in the end. You can start your campaign in a rural setting off the beaten path and not have to address religious issues right away.

I once did a huge GURPS Spacemaster conversion simply because I didn't like the mechanics of how ships jumped in Traveller and I wanted a little higher tech level. Looking back at the scenarios I ended up running, I could have easily run the adventures in the Traveller 'verse. It is fun to think of the campaign world on a grand scale, but during sessions you're working on a much smaller piece of canvas. Good luck!

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Delvidian

I had a negative reaction to the "real religions" aspect of Banestorm when I first picked it up, though I loved everything else about the setting. I decided to give it a go more or less as written but to downplay any religious themes. I think this is easier if your campaign isn't about political intrigue. Mine was more about exploring the different regions of the world acquiring artifacts. I've since transitioned it into a Spelljammer Banestorm campaign, but that's a different story!

My guess is that it's a lot easier to ignore religion in an Yrth campaign than in a Mythic Europe campaign. If that's what the GM wants.

[Tuk the Weekah]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Fred Brackin raises the most important point, though. It would be a bad idea to give those cultures 2000 years of evolution. The Middle Eastern parts, Carthage and the Celtic fringe are sufficiently alien for modern audiences as they are. If you give them too much time to evolve, they will turn pretty unrecognisable or laughably stagnant. There are enough "Roman Empire with some tiny little innovations" timelines already.

There's an easy solution for this, at least until you get to ca. 1453. Hotspots: Constantinople gives you a good idea of how Roman society might develop over 1,000 years if the Empire hadn't been conquered, through the simple expedient of actually being the Roman Empire, still unconquered, for over 1,000 years.