Beyond Yttarria [Banestorm]

[tantric]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Let me see if I've got this straight: you're complaining that you don't see a way to keep them from becoming a magitech society short of literary fiat; someone points out that their lack of a written language would accomplish this task; and your response is that you've used literary fiat to give them a written language.

Huh?

In a sense. Written language is a prerequisite for developing any kind of civilization beyond a certain point. Denying written language to Ubantu would not result, IMO, in them becoming a society similar to Megalos. I don't know of anything that would.

I also don't think that the lack of written language would prevent magitech from developing. There is nothing literary about GURPS magic in the RAW. In fact, said society might develop means of magically recording spoken language before they invent any kind of script. I can certainly see that with the Inca, for example.

I'm going to go back and read Banestorm again. Maybe I could push Ubantu into that mold. It would involve a lot more fiat, but perhaps it wouldn't be that bad.

[David Johnston2]

There are, incidentally a lot of ways to explain the failure to develop a magitech society in a given timeframe, not least of which is: "People are scared of magic because magic summons demons!" That won't keep people away from magic entirely. It's just too useful. But it will keep people from treating it as a casual solution for mundane problems.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

As much fun as modeling other Yrthian continents on Earth cultures is, remember that Yrth is populated by refugees from at least three other worlds, plus the natives. It would be nic to have one or two major societies where humans are in the minority, and halflings, goblins, etc. are running things. Maybe the halflings who ended up on Yttaria weren't ambitious enough to forge a massive empire; but that doesn't mean that everyone on their homeworld was like that.

Riflehalfmen, that might be a bit funny. And then terrifying when they destroy the Yttarrians in combat...

[tantric]

From what I can tell about TL2 and below non-Western civilizations, everyone uses magic all the time. *Everyone* casts spells. The concept of technology-not-magic simply does not exist. Magic is how things are done. They are afraid of witchcraft, of course, but that's why they have witch doctors, who use magic.Encoding superstitions into rituals is just part of the way the human mind works. The way to keep magic down is to limit Magery and define how magic works so that it just can't be used that way. *That's* your primal fiat. But from reading about Bantu cultures and the research I did, it just didn't fit. I chose to give everyone in Ubantu Magery/Power Investiture 0 (actually, it comes from your ancestors and only works so long as you follow cultural taboos). Maybe that would be the thing to change...

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by tantric

I chose to give everyone in Ubantu Magery/Power Investiture 0 (actually, it comes from your ancestors and only works so long as you follow cultural taboos). Maybe that would be the thing to change...

That could be what slows progress. The dead are conservative so magic can change society only slowly. Try to change it faster and the magic stops working.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by tantric

I'm going to go back and read Banestorm again. Maybe I could push Ubantu into that mold. It would involve a lot more fiat, but perhaps it wouldn't be that bad.

Eh. Instead of pushing Ubantu into that mold, I'd rather see something designed with that mold in mind from the outset. That's part of why I've been advocating for more nonhuman cultures: not only should Gabrook have more than just arid lands, it should also have more than just Eurocentric goblins. I could see a continent on Yrth populated largely by goblins who are more like African natives than Europeans (without being either; goblins aren't just green-skinned humans, so their psychology will reflect that, too).

[tantric]

Originally Posted by dcarson

That could be what slows progress. The dead are conservative so magic can change society only slowly. Try to change it faster and the magic stops working.

Curiously, you hit on a central theme in the history of Ubantu. For the first few hundred years, it was a dictatorship of the dead. Then one of the emperors, the Witchking, rebelled against that and caused a huge civil war. The Witchking had good intentions, but witchcraft in this setting is inherently evil. He lost the war, but after that, the ancestors stepped back. One day I'd really like to write that up as a novel.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Is it easily reversible?

Yes. Restoration or Remove Curse.

I'd also allow Dispel Magic to work, and Non Mana Zones would certainly suspend its effects, if not neutralize them.

The price for the "any item" standard magic item is a bit high given its effects, so if you wanted cheap and easy magic birth control, just reduce the cost for magic Strike Barren jewelry to 50-100 energy.

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

The price for the "any item" standard magic item is a bit high given its effects, so if you wanted cheap and easy magic birth control, just reduce the cost for magic Strike Barren jewelry to 50-100 energy.

Why an item ? An item can get lost or damaged. Just get the spell cast once, and reverse it when you want to have a child. At 5 energy a mage can cast it once per hour without problems, so it shouldn´t cost more than 10 or 20 $. Very cheap for a permanent, totally safe and reliably reversible contraceptive. I can easily imagine societies where all children get it before they hit puberty.

[Astromancer]

Botched post, nothing here.