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Old 02-09-2016, 11:06 AM   #41
GranitePenguin
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
It would certainly be worth mentioning that the expanded rules PDF is available for free at W23,
Except that it isn't available for free at W23 (unless you read German).
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #42
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
Except that it isn't available for free at W23 (unless you read German).
But it is available here at this site in the Ogre section.

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products...e_rulebook.pdf
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #43
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by HeatDeath View Post
There does come a point where you are over-polishing...
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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
Plus, since some of these are judgment calls on your part, it would be good to see what you decide on just in case it somehow triggers confusion or the like. Either way, I look forward to your replies!
That seems to be a lot of the commentary - things that aren't in of themselves wrong, but wording that some may find less than clear. Which in turn raises the question of whether the confusion is generalized, or specific to the individual reader. The former certainly is undesired, whereas the latter might fit HeatDeath's over-polishing… As most of this text is directly from the ODE book, which was scrutinized ad nauseum itself, we may be over-thinking things.

But I completely agree with offsides: Your response will be illuminating!

D.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:53 PM   #44
offsides
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by cedric18 View Post
But it is available here at this site in the Ogre section.

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products...e_rulebook.pdf
Which, of course, is what I was misremembering. But yes, a link to the full rules wherever they live would be a good idea.
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Old 02-09-2016, 08:47 PM   #45
dwalend
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

Couple of minor things on a deeper reading (sorry if they are duplicates):

5.02 - maybe change to

5.02 Stacking. Friendly units may not be stacked; that is, only one
vehicle at a time, or a maximum of three squads of infantry, may
occupy each hex at the end of a player's movement phase.

Ogres and CPs count as individual vehicles for stacking – i.e., no
unit can be stacked with an Ogre or CP.

An Ogre ramming enemy armor, an enemy Ogre, or reducing enemy infantry may be stacked with that unit at the end of its movement phase. See 6.08.

- And consider dropping the paragraph that begins: "Obviously, a hex 1.5 km across ..."

---

"On-line Support" is in a very strange spot. Beginning or end boilerplate would be a better fit. (Cool that the full rulebook is on line. Could make for an announcement in the Daily Illuminator or the Kickstarter in a slow week.)

---

What will the overlays be? Anything besides ridges, craters, and tan clear terrain? (If so, what's on the back? If not, what are the other terrain types?)

---

5.05 GEV double movement. - Might be better as "5.05 GEVs have a second movement phase" or "5.05 GEV movement phase." or "5.05 GEVs may move again after firing."

---

I'll likely be buying one of these at some point to get a third tan map for tournaments. Any chance of SJGames selling just the map?

Also, any thoughts for how to get the green G1, G2, S1, and S2 to future customers?
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
An Ogre ramming enemy armor, an enemy Ogre, or reducing enemy infantry may be stacked with that unit at the end of its movement phase. See 6.08.
I disagree with the bit "an enemy Ogre" because "The ramming Ogre immediately ends its movement for that turn in the last hex it occupied before ramming." (last sentence of 6.05)
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:10 AM   #47
dwalend
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by ghostofjfd View Post
I disagree with the bit "an enemy Ogre" because "The ramming Ogre immediately ends its movement for that turn in the last hex it occupied before ramming." (last sentence of 6.05)
Hey, look at that. Hazard of learning the game from a person instead of a rulebook.

Any thoughts on doctoring 6.05 to let the ogres stack like armor and inf? I'd prefer it, but would just play with the full rules instead.

Also, does 5.02 need a note that if you can't get the units spread out then all but one is killed at the end of the movement phase?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:36 AM   #48
ghostofjfd
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
Hey, look at that. Hazard of learning the game from a person instead of a rulebook.
No worries. I learned this rule the hard way in a home-brew scenario when I lost a bumper-cars contest among weapons-stripped Ogres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
Any thoughts on doctoring 6.05 to let the ogres stack like armor and inf? I'd prefer it, but would just play with the full rules instead.
Variations on the stacking rules (e.g. full G.E.V. stacking/spillover/overrun) on the Ogre map are fun as house rules. But I wouldn't include them in the rule book Steve's asking us to help polish here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
Also, does 5.02 need a note that if you can't get the units spread out then all but one is killed at the end of the movement phase?
Maybe I'm overlooking some possibility, but I can't envision a legal way to form stacks in the first place that would need to be spread out again like this. This is a good question, though, probing for weird edge cases. Now's the time to do that.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:52 AM   #49
HeatDeath
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

On a complexity scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is Tic-Tac-Toe and 10 is Europa or some SPI monstrosity, Ogre was aiming at somewhere between 3 and 4. GEV, on the other hand , was aiming for somewhere between 4 and 5.

The design intent in Ogre seems to be that nothing ever stacks at all. Ogres ramming each other stay in adjacent hexes, armor never ram each other because they're always on the same side, infantry can't ram or be rammed, and an Ogre ram is automatic death to any armor unit.

As is already called out in the instructions, infantry surviving being stepped down and then fired by an Ogre at is the only case where any two units ever end up in the same hex. And it's really an edge case that is pretty unlikely to actually happen in motivated play.

This box should be Ogre being Ogre - let's not try to sneak chunks of GEV into it. The prospect of attacker GEVs ramming defending armor (or defending GEVs ramming the attacking GEVs) is about as far as we want to go down that road, and frankly I don't think it would damage the game overly just to disallow armor ramming armor altogether - armor can ram the Ogre in the standard scenarios because they're in an apparently futile life and death struggle against an unstoppable inhuman monster that has already killed most of their comrades and has almost destroyed their nation's main chance of victory in this sector. I honestly don't believe any armor crew would usually be capable of ramming a lesser target in less dire circumstances.

Last edited by HeatDeath; 02-10-2016 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:44 PM   #50
brionl
 
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Default Re: Soft announcement: new Ogre set!

So, it this going to have 3D Ogres or the flat ones?
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