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Old 09-21-2020, 10:06 PM   #1
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Public gates

I'm uncertain how common I want gates to be. The campaign map suggests gates in every town and city. (There don't seem to be any towns marked on the map, just villages, small villages and cities, so I'm a little puzzled.) That makes travel rather easy, of course, and arguably too easy. Sometimes, the trip itself is an important part of the story.

But I've also been hinting at changes in the transportation of valuable goods (gold going from the Gargoyle mountains east and south to seaports) and it suddenly struck me. Even if gates are not all that common in my world, why the heck would valuable goods be transported by road and boat? I don't want to go so far as to outlaw gates -- they're fun in certain situations. But if an IQ 14 wizard can create a gate, where is the economic value in hauling material over land and sea? It wouldn't take but a few business-savvy wizards to see that making gates for cargo purposes is a mighty profitable way to go.

I'm not necessarily doing a big mission on the importance of trade rights or anything like that in the near future. I'm not George Lucasing my campaign. But a bit of background story to hint at big goings on is important, even if it merely misleads the players who try to fit pieces together that I'm just throwing in for flavor. (Rumors about increased numbers of orcs heading north in twos and threes and acting suspiciously seems to really get some players' minds racing, even though in my story, it's just a bit of racism and confirmation bias producing the rumor!)

Anyway, I digress (though digressions in parentheses -- like this one -- don't count). Has anyone thought about the myriad ways that gates would change the economic landscape? Or do we all pretend to ignore this particular elephant and populate the landscape with barges and mule-drawn wagons?
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:01 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Public gates

I've always loved maps and exploring and traveling around game worlds. Discovering what's where, getting new imperfect maps that reveal more of the world and other clues, and all of the endless situations that arise naturally from terrain and other features and what it involves to get from place to place.

Having too many gates available tends to greatly undermine the significance of the game world maps, and trivialize locations, travel difficulties, rare things in distant lands requiring effort to get to, communication delays, imperfect knowledge of the world, and all sorts of other things I find fun.

If a gate network is widespread and easily available to PCs, it also implies that the PCs could gate hop around the known world as far as that network goes. Which means the GM needs to be able to support travel to all those places, or else impose arbitrary limitations somehow.

So yes, we've tended to have only limited gates sometimes available.

Create Gate is IQ 15, and IQ 15 wizards who know it aren't that common, and many of them also have other things they like to do with their time other than maintain gate networks for others. The Wizard's Guild of course sees the value in having gates, but without a large staff of wizards reduced to gate network maintenance, it may tend to prefer to reserve use of those gates for its own purposes, or for use by VIPs and people willing to pay a goodly amount for them. Local authorities and other powerful figures may also take an interest in gate networks and want to have exclusive access to them and/or track and prohibit who's gating into their territory. We do have gates occasionally be offered for public use at somewhat more reasonable prices, but that usually means the guild has a backup gate or the gate was created for some purpose that it's no longer needed for.

I find those kind of considerations interesting and fitting as well as conveniently preserving the significance of maps, terrain, non-magic transport situations, and also keeping the campaign more manageable. Because even though I do have dozens of maps like the Dran map in my TFT campaign world, keeping track of what is going on in all those lands would become ridiculously more complex if there were thousands of gates connecting everyplace and being used for trade and transport all the time.

And, it would also seem to me to tend to become a powder keg by bringing all those nations within fast striking range of each other. It seems clear that the power-oriented folks of the world would see the potential of one faction who amassed enough gate wizards and gate keys/locks to attempt some sort of alpha strike blitz on the rest of the world. While that could make a really interesting scenario, it would also be insanely complex and unstable.

Oh, and here are some potential House Rules that can help explain why gate networks may not be so common, and also make them more interesting and unpredictable, if desired by the GM: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160847

Last edited by Skarg; 09-21-2020 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 09-22-2020, 05:24 AM   #3
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Public gates

Thanks for your thoughts, Skarg.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:15 AM   #4
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Public gates

The clues we have from ITL are:
  1. There is a public gate network.
  2. Gate failure is common.
  3. Stabilizing a gate requires half the ST of rebuilding it.
  4. Stabilizing a gate requires an on call wizard and 50 ST.
  5. Recharging a powerstone or staff requires five times as much ST
  6. Therefore the most efficient "Gate Station" has two wizards and ten apprentices.
  7. However wizards are too rare to have this many just standing by each gate.

When I ran the numbers I found two stable configurations:

A: There is a public gate network running at two silvers per hop and maintained by a universal Wizards' Guild conspiracy that uses social pressure to force apprentices to work for them and that these apprentices don't count against the one in 300 "Adult" wizards in the population.

and

B: There is a fragmented gate network run by different groups operating at $50 or more internal cost per hop and at best $100 per hop external price. Figuring out which series of gates maintained by which groups lead to your destination becomes an adventure in itself with no guarantee that you won't be stranded half way there.

Also only the universal Wizards' Guild could hope to deliver potions and magical items at the listed price.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:35 AM   #5
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Public gates

I just don't do any of this. I think it's perfectly fine to have aa gate network if it's what suits you, but it has the same effect on a campaign that instant FTL travel and teleporters have on a space game: you automatically are playing Star Trek rather than Alien. I love them both on the silver screen, but when I game, I prefer that 'Alien' grittiness.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:23 AM   #6
Shostak
 
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Public gates

I completely agree with Lars. Gates can derail a game quickly by making long-distance travel both too fast and too safe compared to mundane alternatives.

No matter how you choose to use gates in your game, I recommend featuring Gate Lice as a hazard.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:44 AM   #7
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Public gates

Some good ideas from everyone. Much thanks.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:49 PM   #8
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Public gates

I find the idea of a Transport Guild that controls gate stations fascinating:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
More gates means fewer wizards need to know the spells because those that do, the ones that build and maintain the redundant gate network, can use it to move around and leverage the network effect to get to the gates they need to maintain.

After reading the OP, we realized that an ancient, Dune-like Transport Guild must have arisen that would control the knowledge of Gate, Control Gate, and Long Distance Teleport, assassinating competitors, controlling prices, and influencing governments.
Check the thread for some neat ideas...
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:58 PM   #9
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Public gates

For a different buzz on the subject read A Temple of the Six Gates in Hexagram #4.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:47 PM   #10
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Public gates

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
I find the idea of a Transport Guild that controls gate stations fascinating:



Check the thread for some neat ideas...
Thanks, I had not seen that thread.

Did you ever run a campaign with such a guild? Might be fun, but for now I'm going for simpler fantasy, something a bit more relatable to the average player and to me. Buncha swords, some guys who cast spells and a bit of intrigue on a small scale appropriate for beginner characters.

There's no doubt that if gates are commonplace, everything is mighty different. That thread spins out some of the differences, a lot more than I had in mind when I posted. I was just puzzling over why my adventure had to do with carts taking items from one place to another if small villages have temporary gates around harvest time.
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