Two-handed sword question

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

If you want a real world bastard sword, a real world hand-and-a-half sword, you need to use what GURPS calls a Longsword, that's why the Longsword is an entry in Martial Arts.

You only use the Basic Set "Bastard Sword" as a weapon wielded by some savage barbarian type from a civilization which doesn't understand how to make real swords, or a ceremonial blade hung up on the wall and used on the chopping block, then you make sure the PCs have Longswords for their own bastard sword usage.

... and none of that is relevant that I can tell. Maybe it's a completely unrealistic weapon, it's still lighter than a greatsword. And a greatsword can in theory be wielded without penalty in one hand.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

... and none of that is relevant that I can tell. Maybe it's a completely unrealistic weapon, it's still lighter than a greatsword. And a greatsword can in theory be wielded without penalty in one hand.

An Axe is lighter than a Greatsword, I think, but is always going to be U parry. Light is not the point.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

... and none of that is relevant that I can tell. Maybe it's a completely unrealistic weapon, it's still lighter than a greatsword. And a greatsword can in theory be wielded without penalty in one hand.

The relevance is the balance point, the greatsword is balanced.

Balance wise a shortsword, broadsword, longsword and greatsword are similarly functional as balanced attack and defense blades.

Unbalanced wise, a falchion, morningstar, bastard sword, naginata, great axe, halberd, tetsubo, and maul are similarly functional as attack or defense weapons.

The question then is strictly when does the extra ST compensate for the U, RAW wise, since any defensive attack will eliminate the U at the cost of -2 dmg, that's always an option, and once 2 dmg over 3xST is arrived at, there's no reason not to use defensive attack all the time since dmg caps at 3xST.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Balance wise a shortsword, broadsword, longsword and greatsword are similarly functional as balanced attack and defense blades.

Unbalanced wise, a falchion, morningstar, bastard sword, naginata, great axe, halberd, tetsubo, and maul are similarly functional as attack or defense weapons.

So what your saying is that the bastard sword, as represented in Basic, isn't simply an intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword? It's a different shape, tip heavy?

If it's a matter of balance, not weight, why isn't it U-parry when used two handed, at least when swung (to match the naginata)?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by gjc8

So what your saying is that the bastard sword, as represented in Basic, isn't simply an intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword?

Right, the intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword is the longsword.

Originally Posted by gjc8

It's a different shape, tip heavy?

If it's a matter of balance, not weight, why isn't it U-parry when used two handed, at least when swung (to match the naginata)?

Yep, tip heavy, mind you, you can just consider that the entry for Bastard Sword makes it Unreadied if wielded in one hand.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.5.2
3.5.2 What is the difference between an unbalanced and an unreadied weapon? Can I make an unbalanced weapon balanced by having enough ST?

An unreadied weapon is a weapon which is hard to manipulate because of weight or bulk. It is possible to reduce the unreadiness by having sufficient ST (see p. B270 for all the possibilities).

An unbalanced weapon is inherently unbalanced, and you can only either attack or parry with it in a turn. Not because of its weight or unwieldiness (which could be overcome with high ST), but because it is physically held differently for attack and defense. For instance, if you're swinging an axe at full force or lashing with a whip, the weapon isn't in a guard position. If you're holding the axe across your body or using the whip's handle to parry like a stick, it isn't in an offensive position. It has nothing to do with how "unready" attacking or parrying makes the weapon – it has to do with how the weapon is gripped.

As for the Bastard Sword being listed as an Unbalanced weapon, you can safely change its listing to make it Unreadied if wielded in one hand.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Right, the intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword is the longsword.



Yep, tip heavy, mind you, you can just consider that the entry for Bastard Sword makes it Unreadied if wielded in one hand.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.5.2
3.5.2 What is the difference between an unbalanced and an unreadied weapon? Can I make an unbalanced weapon balanced by having enough ST?

An unreadied weapon is a weapon which is hard to manipulate because of weight or bulk. It is possible to reduce the unreadiness by having sufficient ST (see p. B270 for all the possibilities).

An unbalanced weapon is inherently unbalanced, and you can only either attack or parry with it in a turn. Not because of its weight or unwieldiness (which could be overcome with high ST), but because it is physically held differently for attack and defense. For instance, if you're swinging an axe at full force or lashing with a whip, the weapon isn't in a guard position. If you're holding the axe across your body or using the whip's handle to parry like a stick, it isn't in an offensive position. It has nothing to do with how "unready" attacking or parrying makes the weapon – it has to do with how the weapon is gripped.

As for the Bastard Sword being listed as an Unbalanced weapon, you can safely change its listing to make it Unreadied if wielded in one hand.

Apparently at different points Kromm said different things about it. At this point, I don't want to touch these paragraphs with a Reach 2,3 stick.

[Joseph Paul]

Unready I can see but not unbalanced.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

The relevance is the balance point, the greatsword is balanced.

Balance wise a shortsword, broadsword, longsword and greatsword are similarly functional as balanced attack and defense blades.

Sure.

Unbalanced wise, a falchion, morningstar, bastard sword, naginata, great axe, halberd, tetsubo, and maul are similarly functional as attack or defense weapons.

A small falchion is a called a "saber." A small naginata is simply a spear of some sort. A small tetsubo is called a "baton." Not really sure where you're going with this.

The question then is strictly when does the extra ST compensate for the U, RAW wise, since any defensive attack will eliminate the U at the cost of -2 dmg, that's always an option, and once 2 dmg over 3xST is arrived at, there's no reason not to use defensive attack all the time since dmg caps at 3xST.

AFAIK, that's -2 on top of the damage cap.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Right, the intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword is the longsword.

Isn't the bastard sword intermediate between a greatsword and a longsword, having the reach for it?

Look, I can look at pictures. If you stick a handle on one end and a long blade on the other, and the weapon can be wielded balanced in two hands, then it has a balance point for one-handed use. The greatsword already acknowledges this. Unless the handle is made of plastic and the blade is made of, oh, depleted uranium or something, and the bastard "sword" actually looks like a giant question mark with a rack of elf horns on it for looks, I'm just not sure what you're claiming the bastard sword is supposed to be.

It's. A. Bastard. Sword.

Being designed for one- or two- handed use, it's inherently going to be better for one-handed use than the greatsword, which is only designed for two-handed use. Next thing you know, we'll find out that with enough strength, the greatsword is a better throwing weapon than a throwing axe.

If you had a pistol with a folding stock attachment, and you discovered that it was less accurate and generally not as good with the stock folded as a rifle wielded in one hand, you bet there would be some questions about that.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Right, the intermediate between a broadsword and a greatsword is the longsword.

That's one interpretation. Another would be that the Longsword is a weapon around 48" long, almost as good in one hand as two (what Fiore preferred); and a Bastard Sword is an example around 54" long, really better with two hands (what Vadi preferred); with a Greatsword around 60" and only effective in two hands.