'Fake Cargo' Rules ?

Racer · 08-02-2017, 04:51 PM

I recall years ago that Fake Cargo items were available ? Light weight empty plastic barrels , large Polystyrene & Plastic items for Flatbeds & Pickup cargo beds , Fake Vehicle Body Shells etc . Very useful in scenarios , Q-Vehicles , smuggling etc .

Recall that Labrador Mini Buses mounted a polystyrene MG Turret on Top , with a Heavy Laser in the Pop-Up Turret underneath , in. ADQ 4/4 .
I THINK some of the Rules were in a Road Atlas , but can't find them . Any ideas Guys ?

Magesmiley · 08-02-2017, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer

I recall years ago that Fake Cargo items were available ? Light weight empty plastic barrels , large Polystyrene & Plastic items for Flatbeds & Pickup cargo beds , Fake Vehicle Body Shells etc . Very useful in scenarios , Q-Vehicles , smuggling etc .

Recall that Labrador Mini Buses mounted a polystyrene MG Turret on Top , with a Heavy Laser in the Pop-Up Turret underneath , in. ADQ 4/4 .
I THINK some of the Rules were in a Road Atlas , but can't find them . Any ideas Guys ?

There were stats for a pintle mount hidden in a luggage rack in the Car Warriors comic series if I recall.

Sunday Drivers/Crash City had some costs for some oddball items tucked away in the referee note. Plastic garbage cans were listed at $10. Not quite the same as empty plastic barrels, but close enough IMO.

You might be looking for the vehicle decoys. UACFH p. 107.

Fake turrets are also in UACFH p. 49. They don't mention explosive bolts for blowing them off, but I think the ones for Car Top Carriers are probably reasonable for fake turrets too.

Fake car top carriers are also in UACFH p. 66

And of course, the fake passengers (UACFH p.72)

Racer · 08-03-2017, 06:28 AM

Thanks mate :-)
I have UACFH & was aware of those items . Sunday Drivers/Crash City : I'll try to dig out the supplement - not sure if DWC has the info on Trash Cans/Rubbish Bins but I'll look .

Real Rules & items I were looking for were BIG : Fake Truck Power Plants , fake pallet of Bricks/Breeze Blocks or bags of Cement , stack of Tree Logs , Fake 15' Van Carrier on a 40' Flatbed etc . Most were for Flatbeds or 40' Dumpers or the larger Car Trailers of those types ? As stated they were hollow/polystyrene & covered in tough looking plastic to reflect the look of real things , but 1/20th to 1/50th the real weight ? Held in place by Velcro/Bolts/Cargo Straps or Chains , the could be easily moved by 2-4 Pedestrians into place .
Entry/Article or web page was very extensive , and due to my near eidetic memory I of course recall the rules & stats but not where I bloody saw them ... X-|

Thanks again & hope others can help with more information in this subject ...

JimTullis · 08-06-2017, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

There were stats for a pintle mount hidden in a luggage rack in the Car Warriors comic series if I recall.

You are correct.
I don't have the stats here at work, but the premise was a hidden pintle mount. It is hidden in a moon-roof. A passenger could stand in the moon-roof normally or swivel the gun out before standing in the roof. If the gun was not swiveled out first, the passenger would have to sit down before deploying the gun. There was an optional rule for a large suitcase that could be used to hide the turret deployed or not until use. I believe you could armor the suitcase.

The family that used this in the comic seemed a bit like "National Lampoon's Vacation".

swordtart · 08-07-2017, 12:02 AM

Fake cargo can weigh and cost whatever you want if it is for campaign play.

There is no consistency in the rules to provide a guide (fake weapons have a flat weight, fake peds weight 10%, fake wheelguards/hubs weight 25% (or 50% for the cycle version).

It would be pointless in arena play as they would be instantly recognized as fake (as no-one would legally be able to carry damage sinks, anything that looks like one would have to be a fake).

However if you are using it for the effect of weapon concealment, you must pay for the cost of weapon concealment. Blow through concealment is a small section built into normal armour to conceal the firing port only, so you can't use it unless you have something else concealing the rest of the weapon system.

If you want a fake body shell, surely that is just 1 point of armour in the relevant location? This would be wholly undetectable as a fake as it isn't really fake ;)

swordtart · 08-07-2017, 01:48 AM

The other pertinent question is who these items are trying to fool?

What does a fake big rig engine do? Is it designed to pass close inspection? If it is exposed enough for the requirement for it to look like an engine to mean anything then it would have to be a pretty good fake. A fake engine under armour seems pointless (you might as well just leave empty spaces).

Consider also whether you would carry something as expensive as a truck plant exposed on a flatbed. Even a few hits from an SMG would render it worthless.

In our campaign flatbeds are used to transport Pre-loaded ISO containers (we just use wheel-less 10' and 20' car trailers). These can be loaded above the load limits of a trailer as there are no wheels (which means you can have lots of armour. No-one other than the person who filled them knows what is in them (it could be cash, rubber chickens or a squad of anti-hijack infantry) which improves security. Turn around at truck-stops is significantly improved (just loading and unloading boxes) and time IS money for a trucker. A conventional flatbed can carry three 10ft containers (each holding 20 spaces) without risk of loosing any cargo due to overloading. Often one 10' ISO will be designated as a weapons ISO at the back of the trailer and can be fitted with the usual vehicular weapons, turrets, sponsons, etc.

We use the stats for the dual-level flatbed as a specialised ISO carrier that allows 4 10' ISOs without overloading.

If flatbeds are used for other bulky objects that cannot fit into a cargo container then they are covered with component armour (we are treating each cargo item as a component in this regard. We have shipped Killa Karts under component armour in this way (basing the cost and weight of the armour on the number of spaces the vehicle would take up as cargo). 10 points protection is enough against casual nuisance attacks.

swordtart · 08-07-2017, 06:23 AM

Another question.

What do you intend to do "under" the fake?

The cargo area of the sorts of vehicles you mention cannot mount weaponry, so what are you hiding?

If you are going Q-ship neither a rig with a flatbed nor a dumper is going to give you sufficient weaponry to make faking a cargo worthwhile.

If you are smuggling you are either going to meet someone who isn't going to search thoroughly (in which case a tarp will probably be enough) or you will meet someone who puts some effort into it. They won't be fooled with a lightweight fake. You will normally have to smuggle inside a hollowed out genuine component (as they probably won't dismantle it). The game can't really provide stats for those kinds of shenanigans.

You may choose to buy terminally damaged components (10% of list price, 100% of weight) and find some spaces inside to hide small but valuable stuff. This would fool all but a determined search. Shipping destroyed components isn't an unreasonable thing to do on an unprotected flatbed as you can't really damage it any further and it's resale value is too low to justify the cost of hijacking (other than just stealing the truck itself). If they were after the truck they may just turf the cargo out to carry back their wounded.

Hmmm... interesting scenario. An unsuspecting hard-up driver takes a low-paid but low-risk job hauling trash from the city to a reclamation yard out in the boonies in beaten-up pick-up. Unbeknownst to him he is actually transporting a small and light but precious cargo (gemstones?) hidden in the junk. Someone has taken some of the guts out of a trashed power plant, hidden the gems inside and carefully reassembled the plant so that it looks undisturbed (but clearly still trashed).

Who would suspect he was a worthwhile target, even he doesn't know of the real cargo and the second-hand value of a pickup put together from junker parts is too low to risk even a Dreg life to capture. Even if he gets jumped the bandits are likely to take the pickup but dump the cargo to improve their acceleration and top-speed (or for true deviousness force him to dump the contraband by hiding it in the junk ammo in a junk dropper). The garbage company (who are in on the scam) can always recover the roadside debris as part of their duties.

There could be a regular run smuggling small goods out of the city where they were stolen out to where the contraband can be disposed of more easily. The contract driver will be entirely genuine at checkpoints and so allay suspicion.

No fake stuff required, just junked stuff (for which prices, weights and spaces are already available).

JimTullis · 08-07-2017, 09:31 PM

One use for fake cargo is moving stuff in a shell game.

If the opposition is not close enough to inspect your load, but has observers near your loading location, you might want 3 rigs with identical looking loads.
Then you can play a shell game with the opposition, where only one load is legit. If the opposition has a limited number of vehicles, they either have to split their strength or gamble on which load to chase.

swordtart · 08-08-2017, 01:28 AM

The old switcheroo is best performed in closed vehicles. Even then it is a plot for movies rather than a viable tactic (other than last ditch efforts or a lazy opponent).

If you have the budget to duplicate the rigs, then you might be better off just setting two up as gun-trucks and put them all into a single convoy to protect each other. Sure they know where your whole force is, but they have to take on your whole force, split them up and they can destroy you in detail. Up to 40 spaces of turreted/sponsoned weapons per gun-truck will make it a tough target. 80 spaces of turret weapons (plus whatever incidental weapons the cargo vehicle will be carrying) will make it a meat grinder.

If the baddies can set up road blocks, they can set them up for all three trucks for little extra effort and so you gain nothing.

Racer · 08-08-2017, 02:11 AM

In a rush but here's a few ideas .
Yes your right but what if you plan more creativity ? Like the 'Decoy Tanker' at the end of Mad Max 2 , when the actually transported the Fuel in that bus & other vehicles !

Or that huge shipment of next generation Holo Cubes that the Bad Guys know will be going through a certain Truck Stop on Friday morning to reach the cargo ships deadline . Is it that lone gypsy Trucker in his well equipped Rig ? Or those other two Tractor Trailers & Escorts in that moderately armed Convoy ? We'll just wait until that 40' Dumper combo hauling manure leaves for a clear view of of the potential targets ...

( Chips were in Cargo Safe under a thin spread of manure & false bottoms & empty containers ! We let the Dumper get a 40 mile head start with it's covert Escorts , before Bad Guys undercover Spy informed them of this ... you should have heard the swearing !
The comment " I HATES MANURE ! " has been adopted in our groups for this sort of bait-and-switch operation ... Lmao X-D )

I'll give other examples later .

08-02-2017, 04:51 PM	#1
Racer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK	'Fake Cargo' Rules ? I recall years ago that Fake Cargo items were available ? Light weight empty plastic barrels , large Polystyrene & Plastic items for Flatbeds & Pickup cargo beds , Fake Vehicle Body Shells etc . Very useful in scenarios , Q-Vehicles , smuggling etc . Recall that Labrador Mini Buses mounted a polystyrene MG Turret on Top , with a Heavy Laser in the Pop-Up Turret underneath , in. ADQ 4/4 . I THINK some of the Rules were in a Road Atlas , but can't find them . Any ideas Guys ? __________________ Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!! The Resident Brit .

08-03-2017, 06:28 AM	#3
Racer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? Thanks mate :-) I have UACFH & was aware of those items . Sunday Drivers/Crash City : I'll try to dig out the supplement - not sure if DWC has the info on Trash Cans/Rubbish Bins but I'll look . Real Rules & items I were looking for were BIG : Fake Truck Power Plants , fake pallet of Bricks/Breeze Blocks or bags of Cement , stack of Tree Logs , Fake 15' Van Carrier on a 40' Flatbed etc . Most were for Flatbeds or 40' Dumpers or the larger Car Trailers of those types ? As stated they were hollow/polystyrene & covered in tough looking plastic to reflect the look of real things , but 1/20th to 1/50th the real weight ? Held in place by Velcro/Bolts/Cargo Straps or Chains , the could be easily moved by 2-4 Pedestrians into place . Entry/Article or web page was very extensive , and due to my near eidetic memory I of course recall the rules & stats but not where I bloody saw them ... X-\| Thanks again & hope others can help with more information in this subject ... __________________ Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!! The Resident Brit . Last edited by Racer; 08-07-2017 at 07:59 AM.

08-07-2017, 12:02 AM	#5
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? Fake cargo can weigh and cost whatever you want if it is for campaign play. There is no consistency in the rules to provide a guide (fake weapons have a flat weight, fake peds weight 10%, fake wheelguards/hubs weight 25% (or 50% for the cycle version). It would be pointless in arena play as they would be instantly recognized as fake (as no-one would legally be able to carry damage sinks, anything that looks like one would have to be a fake). However if you are using it for the effect of weapon concealment, you must pay for the cost of weapon concealment. Blow through concealment is a small section built into normal armour to conceal the firing port only, so you can't use it unless you have something else concealing the rest of the weapon system. If you want a fake body shell, surely that is just 1 point of armour in the relevant location? This would be wholly undetectable as a fake as it isn't really fake ;) Last edited by swordtart; 08-07-2017 at 01:31 AM.

08-07-2017, 01:48 AM	#6
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? The other pertinent question is who these items are trying to fool? What does a fake big rig engine do? Is it designed to pass close inspection? If it is exposed enough for the requirement for it to look like an engine to mean anything then it would have to be a pretty good fake. A fake engine under armour seems pointless (you might as well just leave empty spaces). Consider also whether you would carry something as expensive as a truck plant exposed on a flatbed. Even a few hits from an SMG would render it worthless. In our campaign flatbeds are used to transport Pre-loaded ISO containers (we just use wheel-less 10' and 20' car trailers). These can be loaded above the load limits of a trailer as there are no wheels (which means you can have lots of armour. No-one other than the person who filled them knows what is in them (it could be cash, rubber chickens or a squad of anti-hijack infantry) which improves security. Turn around at truck-stops is significantly improved (just loading and unloading boxes) and time IS money for a trucker. A conventional flatbed can carry three 10ft containers (each holding 20 spaces) without risk of loosing any cargo due to overloading. Often one 10' ISO will be designated as a weapons ISO at the back of the trailer and can be fitted with the usual vehicular weapons, turrets, sponsons, etc. We use the stats for the dual-level flatbed as a specialised ISO carrier that allows 4 10' ISOs without overloading. If flatbeds are used for other bulky objects that cannot fit into a cargo container then they are covered with component armour (we are treating each cargo item as a component in this regard. We have shipped Killa Karts under component armour in this way (basing the cost and weight of the armour on the number of spaces the vehicle would take up as cargo). 10 points protection is enough against casual nuisance attacks.

08-07-2017, 06:23 AM	#7
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? Another question. What do you intend to do "under" the fake? The cargo area of the sorts of vehicles you mention cannot mount weaponry, so what are you hiding? If you are going Q-ship neither a rig with a flatbed nor a dumper is going to give you sufficient weaponry to make faking a cargo worthwhile. If you are smuggling you are either going to meet someone who isn't going to search thoroughly (in which case a tarp will probably be enough) or you will meet someone who puts some effort into it. They won't be fooled with a lightweight fake. You will normally have to smuggle inside a hollowed out genuine component (as they probably won't dismantle it). The game can't really provide stats for those kinds of shenanigans. You may choose to buy terminally damaged components (10% of list price, 100% of weight) and find some spaces inside to hide small but valuable stuff. This would fool all but a determined search. Shipping destroyed components isn't an unreasonable thing to do on an unprotected flatbed as you can't really damage it any further and it's resale value is too low to justify the cost of hijacking (other than just stealing the truck itself). If they were after the truck they may just turf the cargo out to carry back their wounded. Hmmm... interesting scenario. An unsuspecting hard-up driver takes a low-paid but low-risk job hauling trash from the city to a reclamation yard out in the boonies in beaten-up pick-up. Unbeknownst to him he is actually transporting a small and light but precious cargo (gemstones?) hidden in the junk. Someone has taken some of the guts out of a trashed power plant, hidden the gems inside and carefully reassembled the plant so that it looks undisturbed (but clearly still trashed). Who would suspect he was a worthwhile target, even he doesn't know of the real cargo and the second-hand value of a pickup put together from junker parts is too low to risk even a Dreg life to capture. Even if he gets jumped the bandits are likely to take the pickup but dump the cargo to improve their acceleration and top-speed (or for true deviousness force him to dump the contraband by hiding it in the junk ammo in a junk dropper). The garbage company (who are in on the scam) can always recover the roadside debris as part of their duties. There could be a regular run smuggling small goods out of the city where they were stolen out to where the contraband can be disposed of more easily. The contract driver will be entirely genuine at checkpoints and so allay suspicion. No fake stuff required, just junked stuff (for which prices, weights and spaces are already available).

08-07-2017, 09:31 PM	#8
JimTullis Join Date: Feb 2013	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? One use for fake cargo is moving stuff in a shell game. If the opposition is not close enough to inspect your load, but has observers near your loading location, you might want 3 rigs with identical looking loads. Then you can play a shell game with the opposition, where only one load is legit. If the opposition has a limited number of vehicles, they either have to split their strength or gamble on which load to chase.

08-08-2017, 01:28 AM	#9
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? The old switcheroo is best performed in closed vehicles. Even then it is a plot for movies rather than a viable tactic (other than last ditch efforts or a lazy opponent). If you have the budget to duplicate the rigs, then you might be better off just setting two up as gun-trucks and put them all into a single convoy to protect each other. Sure they know where your whole force is, but they have to take on your whole force, split them up and they can destroy you in detail. Up to 40 spaces of turreted/sponsoned weapons per gun-truck will make it a tough target. 80 spaces of turret weapons (plus whatever incidental weapons the cargo vehicle will be carrying) will make it a meat grinder. If the baddies can set up road blocks, they can set them up for all three trucks for little extra effort and so you gain nothing.

08-08-2017, 02:11 AM	#10
Racer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK	Re: 'Fake Cargo' Rules ? In a rush but here's a few ideas . Yes your right but what if you plan more creativity ? Like the 'Decoy Tanker' at the end of Mad Max 2 , when the actually transported the Fuel in that bus & other vehicles ! Or that huge shipment of next generation Holo Cubes that the Bad Guys know will be going through a certain Truck Stop on Friday morning to reach the cargo ships deadline . Is it that lone gypsy Trucker in his well equipped Rig ? Or those other two Tractor Trailers & Escorts in that moderately armed Convoy ? We'll just wait until that 40' Dumper combo hauling manure leaves for a clear view of of the potential targets ... ( Chips were in Cargo Safe under a thin spread of manure & false bottoms & empty containers ! We let the Dumper get a 40 mile head start with it's covert Escorts , before Bad Guys undercover Spy informed them of this ... you should have heard the swearing ! The comment " I HATES MANURE ! " has been adopted in our groups for this sort of bait-and-switch operation ... Lmao X-D ) I'll give other examples later . __________________ Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!! The Resident Brit . Last edited by Racer; 08-08-2017 at 02:21 AM.