Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

[Otaku]

This discussion popped up in the thread Rules you ignore/alter. Simply put, there were different ideas about how noticeable DR ought to be. Things got a bit heated and very confusing, so I'm only going to quote the first few posts:

Originally Posted by CeeDub

In my Supers campaigns, all Damage Resistance has No Signature at no cost. Obvious DR either has Signature as a Limitation (same value, with the sign flipped), or a Gadget limitation for suits of armour.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'm pretty sure regular DR has no signature to begin with.

Originally Posted by Harald387

Force Field DR with No Signature has been used to represent "the attack just missed, bad luck" in Sorcery and other supplements; my usual take is that while stock DR may or may not be visible on initial inspection, once someone has been hit, it's clear they're absorbing the blow. DR with No Signature means that the reduced damage is easily interpreted as a glancing hit or a miss result instead, and it might not be clear the target is protected.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

It does not, it is plainly visible to anyone looking that your skin/body is tougher (has DR) than normal.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think that depends on Genre... it certainly does for me.

There's also this Kromm quote that was brought up... and it is relevant, but I'm also not sure if it is being properly understood.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Damage Resistance is normally "always on," per the first paragraph of Turning Advantages Off and On (p. B34). It has no crippling bulk or appearance issues by default, so "it never inconveniences you."

There's little value to being able to switch DR on and off. You must still add Switchable, +10% if you wish to do that, though. Presumably, if you want such a feature, you have ways of making it useful. You can balance that cost with Nuisance Effect and so on to get DR at +0% that's funny-looking or bulky when on, out of the way when off. This isn't a net drawback, because once again, it has its uses. If nothing else, it's really annoying to have to subtract DR from the HT rolls for beneficial Afflictions, or to turn aside hypodermics when you need to be immunized against plagues!

Finally, you can take limitations that shut down or reduce the availability of your DR. These are most often such things as Accessibility and Uncontrollable. If you have a drawback like that, then you don't need Switchable as well.

This thread is for those who wish to continue the discussion, as it was really distracting from the main topic from which it originated. Feel free to share how you do or would handle it, and especially feel free to explain why. I'll sound off with my own opinion in the next post.

[Varyon]

My thoughts are that it's obvious if it's part of a recognizable racial/species template - the DR or an alligator or rhinoceros or lizardman is plain to see, because it's part of the template. However, additional DR by default is only obvious once you've been struck - a human (or creature that easily passes for human, like a Kryptonian, say) with DR, or an alligator with extra DR, is normally indistinguishable from one without, although upon being struck by an attack the creature's enhanced resilience is clear. Low/No Signature makes it so the enhanced resilience isn't clear even when the character is struck, be it because the wound becomes a grazing one, misses outright, looks like it's every bit as damaging as it should be (but the target is less affected than they should be), or whatever.

That said, of course, if I played in a game where DR was available for purchase, I'd be certain to ask what approach the GM was going with, to make certain I actually built the character I wanted, and built it correctly.

[Refplace]

I read it as usually inobvious by appearance but obvious by effect,unless No Signature is added. At that point attacks that bounce can be construded as a minor graze.

[Otaku]

Going into the previously linked thread, operating under the "You get what you pay for" principle, I assumed that DR which wasn't perceptible would cost more than DR that is not, because it seems advantageous to me. Especially after the above Kromm quote, though, it is apparent that baseline DR isn't supposed to be disadvantageous,either, except for stuff like making it harder for an beneficial affliction to take.

Now I realize that campaign style and the specifics of the setting most definitely matter. I still think RAW, whatever it is, is also confusing. XP I also think that, by default, DR by default should have some visible indicator (maybe to other senses as well). I'm not saying that DR like Ben "The Thing" Grimm is what you get if you don't take Low Signature or No Signature, just that if you want DR in the style of Clark Kent (Superman), you will need No Signature. No, I'm still not quite sure exactly where the middle ground is.

Except then you get some of the things mentioned already in this discussion; what about when DR is supposed to be so subtle you can't even tell it is blocking damage? I also am confused by how you handle realistic DR. Well, I guess not; maybe a template for an alligator as "Visible" as a Limitation on its scales? A tortoise on its shell?

[Anthony]

RAW quite simply does not say how visible most passive advantages are, unless the advantage has a nuisance effect or temporary disadvantage, and there are no standard disadvantages for "You look like you can do X" unless the result is a reaction adjustment.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I also am confused by how you handle realistic DR. Well, I guess not; maybe a template for an alligator as "Visible" as a Limitation on its scales? A tortoise on its shell?

As I noted, when it's part of a template that makes it obvious what the character is (you aren't going to mistake a lizardman for a human), you can assume the DR is obvious without any further modifiers. Narratively, this isn't so much "the creature has obvious natural armor" (although that may well be the case) as it is "it's common knowledge that a lizardman's scales (or elephant's hide, or whatever) are protective." In a setting where there's some race that doesn't look like it has natural armor, but is clearly identifiable (say, they have blue skin and hooved feet), you can generally assume any DR that's part of their template can be treated as obvious. Someone who has no idea what the creature is may be less likely to realize the character has DR than they would be if it had obvious scales or bony armor, but unless the character's race is extremely uncommon, such events are going to be too rare (and largely due to GM fiat) to be worth points. If the character's race is extremely uncommon, that's grounds for an Unusual Background.

To my knowledge, none of this RAW, and may not even be RAI, but I think it makes the most sense.

[Infornific]

For what it's worth, this came up with sample characters for Monster Hunters. The characters were created by the author of Monster Hunters and in discussion I recall that he considered DR to be at default fairly obvious (he had one character with and one without the No Signature enhancement.) As I recall he saw this as a genre rule and that in a traditional Supers genre DR wouldn't be obvious by default. So there's that.

In general, there are a lot of genre specific rules that simply aren't formally stated anywhere. I'm not sure you can say there are official rules for a lot of these things.

[awesomenessofme1]

I'll repeat my stance that DR can be either visible or invisible, and either one is only worth points if the genre rules or GM say so. In Monster Hunters, Low/No Signature is required, in Supers both visible and invisible forms of DR lack visibility modifiers, and Sorcery gives DR the Visible limitation. So I think the books back up my viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Otaku

Feel free to share how you do or would handle it, and especially feel free to explain why. I'll sound off with my own opinion in the next post.

Put me int he "depends on the genre" camp with ericthered. Though, I am having trouble seeing how sufficiently high DR wouldn't be noticeable... a few DR, say anything that is less than 1/5 the damage dealt might easily go unnoticed. And only a few DR, like 2 at most, would also go unnoticed even in a completely realistic game (especially if it were Tough Skin).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

I'll repeat my stance that DR can be either visible or invisible, and either one is only worth points if the genre rules or GM say so. In Monster Hunters, Low/No Signature is required, in Supers both visible and invisible forms of DR lack visibility modifiers, and Sorcery gives DR the Visible limitation. So I think the books back up my viewpoint.

I think actually only Monster Hunters backs up that viewpoint - and while I prefer Monster Hunters' approach to DR visibility, I think the notion that the mechanical meaning of an ability write-up depends on external 'genre rules' is extremely unwise. And a step back from one of GURPS 4e's structural improvements.

(I can't find any place in Sorcery where Visible is applied to DR.)